Caring for Senior Dogs: Grooming Tips and Insights from Angela Dinsmoor

Karin (00:01.423) Hi Angela, it's so nice to have you here. angela dinsmoor (00:04.504) Thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to having this conversation with you today. Karin (00:08.783) Me too. I I think because I've had an older dog and now have two dogs that are just entering older age, it's really top of mind for me. So I've been following you on social media and find what you do really interesting. So do you want to tell the audience a little bit about your background and you know, a little bit about your mission and what you really do? angela dinsmoor (00:31.982) Sure. Well, the mission of Grey Whiskers, I'll start with that and work backwards. the mission of Gray Whiskers is to help as many senior dogs as possible in in the country and actually over the world as well, and the people who love them, make caring for them easier in their senior years. So to that end, I graduated with a degree in gerontology ages and ages ago. And I quickly realized after working in the nursing home industry for a few years that I'd rather. with pets. So I got a I certified or sorry, I apprenticed under a a groomer and became a groomer for dogs of all ages. And I did that for a while. And then I added a certification in massage for rehabilitation for small animals to my list of things that I did. And it was there that I really started talking with pet parents about the struggles they were having with getting their older dogs safely groomed. they were like groomers were turning them away and the groomers weren't feeling comfortable working with them as they aged. And so I realized that with my background in gerontology and massage, I really had a unique set of skills along with the grooming to be able to help them. So that's when I started Grey Whiskers and it's been so wonderful to be able to help all the the older dogs that I've seen with their grooming challenges specifically, because even Karin (01:47.28) Yeah. angela dinsmoor (01:59.672) Dogs with younger at younger ages in the senior in the aging process are struggling with some of the groom, even if they're still able to tolerate most of it. But the older the dog gets, the harder that gets for them to tolerate. So it's been really rewarding working with that group and helping make that process easier for them. Karin (02:18.019) Your mission is so close to my heart. I love this. So you are a mobile groomer, right? You you don't have a bricks and mortar store, you go to people. angela dinsmoor (02:20.651) Okay. angela dinsmoor (02:27.264) I go to people, but I'm actually a house call groomer because the I started out thinking I would do mo or do house call for a bit and then maybe get a unit and become a a mobile groomer in a and you have a van. But the more I did that, I started dealing with dogs who had dementia and they were they were getting really confused even if they were just in their front cards in a van. So for my purposes, I kept it strictly house call. Karin (02:52.304) Yeah. angela dinsmoor (02:55.82) grooming. So that's that's what I've done over the years. Karin (02:59.025) Okay, so let's let's let's set up what you consider senior and what age do you start seeing changes and in what ways can the owner help a groomer understand what their dog is going through at that moment? angela dinsmoor (03:19.022) So the first part, let's see, I don't have an arbitrary age that I designate for my purposes. For me, it's really about where that dog is in their health of the health of their lives. So if the dog is twelve but still doing really well, still taking, you know, a couple mile walks a day and still managing daily life without much change. Karin (03:33.743) Mm-hmm. angela dinsmoor (03:47.48) From what the owners tell me when I talk to them, I'll still recommend that they keep up with salon grooming or mobile grooming, whatever their current setup is. but sometimes I see seven-year-old dogs who are struggling with the grooming process because they have mobility changes, or they're starting to develop heart disease or other medical problems that make being in the salon too complicated for them medically or too stressful for them, or they're taking too long to recover. So in general. you know, not surprisingly, the larger dogs I tend to see a few years younger than the little teeny dogs. So but for me it's more about wellness than it is about the actual age. And then as far as what owners can help groomers understand and help groomers do their jobs better, I think if I could just encourage communication between the two parties, you know, the groomer talking to the owner about the challenges that they're starting to see. Karin (04:29.137) Okay. angela dinsmoor (04:46.316) Because a lot of times what happens is owners will come to me, they'll call me after they've been, I call it fired from the grooming salons, but they'll come to me after they've been told they can't bring their dogs back anymore. And they'll say that they never saw it coming. And I think groomers, we feel kind of obligated because we're the experts, we feel kind of obligated to to be like, I can handle all of it, I've got Karin (04:54.255) Yeah. angela dinsmoor (05:09.09) you know, this is not the owner's problem, it's my problem. I've got to figure out how to manage this dog safely on the table and I've got to he's changing and that's fine, but it's my job to handle that and I've gotta manage those changes in him on my grooming table as he gets older. so they weren't really prepared for the fact that their dog was struggling at the groomer in many cases because the groomer isn't really telling them because they just feel like there's nothing that can be done about it. This dog still needs to be groomed regardless of what's going on with them medically. So if the groomer talks to the owner about what's going on, what the little things are that they're seeing. And then in reverse, if the owner brings the dog in for grooming or the mobile unit shows up and the owner says, Hey, since I last saw you, he started having these kinds of medical issues, or we're noticing these changes in his daily routine. And I just wanted to let you know because it may affect his ability to tolerate his groom today. And I think that, you know, maybe not all groomers Are you going to be able to do this, but communicating about a change in the process for that day is not a bad idea either if the owner says, you know, look, he may not be able to tolerate this today. Can you do this instead, or can we just skip this part of it? it creates a dynamic where everybody's got the most information, the latest information. Today's information on how the dog is doing. And I think that can really affect the dog's ability to tolerate the groom better and recover from it afterwards. Cause it's not just about the groom in that moment on the table. I talk to people whose dogs are going through rec the recovery process for several weeks after a groom, just because at advanced ages, it's really difficult for them to tolerate a groom like they could when they were three. Karin (06:51.899) Wow, that's a longer recovery time than I would have thought. yeah. angela dinsmoor (06:56.352) It is. It's I don't think anybody really realizes how much a dog and I I hesitate to say the word suffers because it makes it sound like somebody's doing something wrong. So it just I think it's difficult for people to comprehend how long it takes a dog to recover from the grooming process. Karin (07:12.909) I I also think from my perspective, poodles are so used to being in a grooming salon and on the table all the time that I I know from my experience when I first started being more serious about dogs, I was not training my dogs properly. angela dinsmoor (07:18.819) Sure. Karin (07:33.547) my first two dogs were just pet dogs and I didn't train them to be on the table and to enjoy being on the table. And I think that that's something that every breed really should have some awareness of what a dog should be like on a table and how relaxed it should be. you know, I I think we just it's not part of our culture to include this in puppy training, unfortunately. angela dinsmoor (07:52.324) I agree. angela dinsmoor (08:00.546) And groomers are better about it. And I think groomers are definitely better about it now than they were when I first started in the industry. So I really like to work. I I don't do much training just because it's not my area of expertise. I'm not very good at it. I'm like f fully aware that that is not one of my strengths. But I try to work as much as I can with cooperative training for dogs for grooming. And by the time I get them now, they're if I was working with dogs of young ages, it would be different. But Karin (08:06.287) Yes. Yeah. Karin (08:18.033) Right. angela dinsmoor (08:29.698) When you get a dog who's fifteen and has dementia, there's only so much cooperative training you can really accomplish like long term. So I try to make sure that I'm paying really good attention to everybody who's on my table so that I'm reading their behavior signals and their and their anxiety and then I'm w I'm responding to it in kind. If I start to see stress escalating, then I'm making choices that remove some of the stress for the dog, do things in a different way so that they can Karin (08:29.968) Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. angela dinsmoor (08:58.254) tolerate the process better even without the ability to like do a formal training session on the table. And I do find that that works, that works really well. It helps a lot. But it's just difficult when you get to working with a dog of that age because they there's also ingrained patterns, right? Because if you didn't train your dogs, and a lot of groomers are still not, and many, many groomers are training their dogs to work to work well on the grooming tables. Karin (09:17.861) Yes. Yeah. angela dinsmoor (09:25.77) Actually poodles are one of the first ones that I ever had a conversation with somebody about the expectations for grooming needing to change. I had a 14-year-old standard poodle come onto my table when I had been grooming for maybe three or four years and they wanted clean feet. And I remember explaining to the owner that I didn't think clean feet was a was a kind choice for them anymore because the dog was so well trained to the table that he wouldn't lay down for me to clean his feet. Karin (09:35.75) Mm. Karin (09:49.019) Yeah. angela dinsmoor (09:54.38) So he would just stand there and hold one foot out and, you know, going around a dog who has some mobility challenges at that age was a lot. It was a lot for him on the table. Karin (10:05.125) Yeah. I'm not I I actually with my older dog Max Lieberman who died at fifteen at the very end I didn't even bother grooming him. I mean he needed it desperately. He was but he also didn't need it because it would have been stressful and he was weak enough that he couldn't hold a leg up or anything like that. But what I if anyone's listening and has a young dog, angela dinsmoor (10:17.592) Yeah. angela dinsmoor (10:23.438) Right. angela dinsmoor (10:27.66) Right. Yeah. Karin (10:33.359) get them ready now by teaching them to both lie down on the table and stand on the table because they need both of those skills. angela dinsmoor (10:41.122) Yes, they need to know it's okay for them to change positions. I think standards are a specific group of dogs who are just I mean, look at them. They're beautiful in their and the grooms that we put them in, the coats that we put them in for show and for competition and everything, and they're complicated. They have to know that it's okay for them to change positions. Otherwise they're not going to. They're smart enough to know that this is how the drill goes. So changing expectations for a young dog in Karin (10:55.269) Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. angela dinsmoor (11:08.386) What we set them up to do later lets them know, especially a dog like a poodle who knows that's the the drill, like let them know it's okay to make a change. Karin (11:17.071) So when you're grooming an older dog that might have, you know, hip mobility problems, how do you do you physically support them more to or do you change how they get groomed so it's just not as long and arduous? What are some of the modifications you make from what would be considered a typical groom? angela dinsmoor (11:36.674) I think my changes in the process come from a couple of different angles. One, I allow them to sit and lie down, and I'll actually encourage them to do that if need be. Some dogs, you can gently help them into a sitting and lying down position. A lot of big dogs have hip problems, so they're more comfortable lying down than sitting. So encouraging them to lie down, giving them like a lick mat or some sort of treat to focus on while they're lying on the ground if they're not used to the process can help. Karin (11:55.91) Mm-hmm. angela dinsmoor (12:06.946) I do provide support, but often not as much as you might think. I always worry with advanced senior dogs that they could have undiagnosed belly masses of some kind, you know, organ issues. I I try not to use belly bands a whole lot unless they're really wide and very soft. and I definitely don't want a dog whose like all of the weight is going onto the belly. Karin (12:19.547) Mm-hmm. angela dinsmoor (12:32.268) with a belly band for that reason because it can compress organs that are perhaps disease that we don't know about. They don't have a diagnosis for that. So I try to avoid support in that way as much as possible. and I I do occasionally work with owners who are present during the process to help be an extra pair of hands. So I'll work on the floor in most cases for a large dog. And then in those cases I can actually ask the owners to be the support for Karin (12:54.257) Mm-hmm. angela dinsmoor (12:59.818) a couple of moments if I need the the dog to have a little extra support than I'm physically capable of providing while also like grooming a foot, for example. So so it's mainly about letting the dog reposition themselves, lay down if they want to. And then being creative with support. I, you know, use my knee and I use my shoulder underneath the the hips and I do a lot of different like weight bearing changes that I can provide to act as extra Karin (13:08.336) Right. angela dinsmoor (13:29.236) support for them too. Karin (13:31.473) Okay. does that ever are you adding strain to your own body? Because it seems like you could easily try to help too much and end up taking on so much that you're affecting your own back or or whatever. angela dinsmoor (13:46.252) Yeah, it is I mean that is it is a challenge. I think, you know, working with I I was lucky I was one of the groomers who was taught to take care of my body when I was learning. you know, taught about ergonomic positioning and, you know, moving the dog around instead of myself, you know, sitting when I I I was taught grooming to sit so that I could take some strain off my back and everything. when you work with older dogs, that is a challenge. I think, you know one of the things I used to try to do when I worked with dogs of all ages was that I would schedule not too many seniors for one day. That doesn't obviously work in my current business model because everybody's older, but I try to mix it up between scheduling a dog who needs to be on the floor, a dog who can be on a table who's bigger, a dog whose owner can help me, and then a couple of small dogs in a day. it, you know, the the thing that really is the hardest on me is little dogs who need to be on the floor, and thankfully that's rare. Karin (14:22.092) Ha ha ha Karin (14:40.75) yeah. angela dinsmoor (14:41.4) But dogs with neurological problems or pa who panic on tables, sometimes they have to be down on the floor, and that's probably the most challenging for my back of anything. and then other than that, I've learned to position myself well enough with variety throughout my day to help to help care for my body. Karin (14:52.207) I see. Yeah. Karin (15:01.677) so I I'm kind of looking at your website and your certification and your section on behavior and stress literacy, what are some of the things that you see owners commonly misunderstanding or misattributing in different ways and not recognizing that it's either age or pain or both? angela dinsmoor (15:25.39) That's a good question. angela dinsmoor (15:29.442) Yeah, that's a really good question. I think to me, one of the things I hear most is that, you know, we're seeing this behavior, whatever the behavior is in the dog now that we didn't used to see before. So she's just getting old or he's just getting old, and then they don't really delve into what is changing for the dog. And oftentimes I feel like it is pain to correlate your two points exactly. A lot of times a dog is dealing with pain that we don't know because they don't show the pain until it's significant enough that they're limping or they're crying or they're snapping at you when you're when you're trying to touch them in a certain part of the body or pick them up or something. And I think the miss is that we're when we start to see things that don't look right, like Karin (16:03.589) Right. angela dinsmoor (16:20.788) My little dog, she's a Beagle Dochs and mix and she's we adopted her she was twelve or thirteen when we adopted her and she's fourteen now. So she's when we first got her, she was really exuberant on the stairs. In fact, she's a little dog, so we had to try to keep her from doing the stairs and I had to like beat her to the top of the stairs so that I could pick her up and carry her down the stairs. And so, you know, that was a struggle that I had because I'm always like, you shouldn't be doing the stairs, you're too small for the stairs, but Karin (16:44.42) Right. Karin (16:49.583) Ha ha ha angela dinsmoor (16:50.57) Now I noticed just this morning, in fact, that she's doing more waiting for me at the top of the stairs. And it's little things like that that start to indicate that your dog is already experiencing changes that you you can catalog sooner if you learn to observe more carefully. So, you know, going upstairs, going downstairs, hesitancy to jump on the furniture, these things a lot of times get attributed to old like a normal part of old age. and Karin (16:57.168) Yeah. angela dinsmoor (17:19.522) I mean, you could actually argue that arthritis and mobility issues are a normal part of old age just because so many dogs have them, but it's not a normal part of the healthy aging process. So I always tell people if you can learn to pay attention to your dog, learn to become an observer. So watch for things like changes in her ability to hear you when you open the cheese bag at the refrigerator or you know, those sorts of things, then it looks like behavior change. It looks like stress. sometimes it can look like stress is reducing. No more speaking of Fourth of July, since we've got that coming up, there's no more fear of fireworks. That's a big one. People are like, my old dog's not afraid of the fireworks anymore. Fantastic. That is one of the Karin (17:58.256) Yes. Karin (18:04.303) He can't hear them. Exactly. angela dinsmoor (18:05.91) Right, that is one of the blessings about not being able to hear anymore. That being said, your dog may not be able to hear anymore, so keep this in mind, you know, like it's a that's a double edged sword. Like the good news is your dog's not gonna panic anymore, but the bad news is she's also not gonna hear the treat bag when you open it. So little things like changes in behavior and and increasing stress sometimes is as simple as dementia. Karin (18:21.965) Right. angela dinsmoor (18:30.59) you know, changes related to dementia, but that's a whole different like that's a whole podcast on its own, I think. And and so I think, you know, tuning into the things that are changing for your dog, just you don't even have to run to the vet. In fact, you probably don't run to the vet for every little thing you see, but some things do need a vet visit, but catalog those, like learn to to notice them. That's what I mean by become an avert an observer. Learn to notice those things. That's what I do on the grooming table all the time. I see, you know, this dog is all a sudden not responding to this, you know, like he doesn't hear the clipper turn on behind him if I'm not right there by him while I'm turning it on or if he can't see it, come on. little things like that that that mean changes are there before we really recognize them as a like a hard stop. He can't see anymore. He ran into the wall, so now I know he can't see anymore, you know, before we get to that point. Karin (19:23.247) So when you're grooming either on a table or on a floor, do you have extra padding to make sure they stay comfortable? yeah. angela dinsmoor (19:32.374) I do. Yeah. There there are things now, there are products now that they make for groomers to put on tables for traction and and impact protection for dogs who are standing because tables are in general not slippery, which is a good thing. Grooming tables are not like exam room tables in the veterinary office for I don't know that all pet owners automatically understand that, but most of our grooming tables are are traction based. Which is a great start. But for a senior, even in the tub, they really need some sort of impact protection just for their joints, cushioning for the joints. So I always, because I saw so many senior dogs and I was in people's houses and they were easy to clean, I would use yoga mats. So I would just cut yoga mats and like double up a yoga mat and on my table and then clean it when I was done. And then I had several they could switch out between clients. Karin (20:28.933) That's actually what I use. poodles are on the table for hours at a time. You know, it's a it's a long groom. So I have a thick yoga mat and then I have a pad that's at least two inches. And then I have two table two not two tables, two bath towels, that I switch out as they are getting dry. And I have at least that. But you know, s my dogs are on there for, you know. angela dinsmoor (20:33.516) Yeah. Yeah. angela dinsmoor (20:51.096) Yeah. perfect. Yeah. Karin (20:58.691) up to four hours, not continuously, but they will be up there for a long time. yeah. So they they definitely need to be comfortable. And my pet grooms the same, my other dogs that are in short coats, I still have the same setup just so that they're very comfy and they know that the table is nice and welcoming. angela dinsmoor (21:00.13) Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's a long time. Yeah. angela dinsmoor (21:21.154) Yes, that's that's the most important thing you can do. The other thing I will say is that tubs tend to be slippery. So I mentioned that briefly earlier, but I think it it warrants maybe another sentence or two. grooming tubs are and and house tubs, home tubs are really slippery. That's one thing the grooming industry hasn't really figured out yet. so I always try to make sure it's it's a good idea to have some sort of padding on the bottom of your tub, even if it's not Karin (21:27.417) Yes. Yeah. Sure. angela dinsmoor (21:45.358) padding there. It doesn't necessarily have to be padding because they're in and out of the tub in general fast enough that it, you know, the group I think groomers are pretty quick with baths. So it's really the just the traction. Because a dog who's you know, senior dogs, they lose muscle mass as they age. The older they are, the less muscle mass they have. And so something as simple as standing in the tub and keeping your hind legs from splaying out to the sides Karin (21:55.961) Yeah. Karin (22:11.021) Yes, so hard. Yeah. Yeah. angela dinsmoor (22:11.67) We really take that for granted because the three year olds and the eight year olds can still do it, but the twelve year olds and the fifteen year olds can't anymore. And so you know, towels on the bottom of the tub surface or a grate on the bottom of the tub, like one of the non slip I forget what they call those little mats that go into the tubs. Those kinds of things can be or a game changer because a dog who splays his legs out constantly like that in the tub, you're not only is he at risk for injury and fatigue and soreness. You are too, 'cause you're having to pick him up every time he splays out like that. So you've got to bend over and and s and pick him up and then basically, you know, hold him up in some way, shape, or form, whether that's with a support that makes the makes it difficult to move him around in the tub, or whether that's holding him with your own body. So, you know, those kinds of things are really helpful as well. Karin (22:44.817) Mm-hmm. Karin (23:00.421) So tell me a little bit about your certification for aging dogs. we probably have groomers who are going to be listening, so it might be helpful for them to have a little bit of an idea of what you teach and what the curriculum looks like. angela dinsmoor (23:18.434) Sure. This is and this is the this is the piece of my work that I'm so excited to be able to do. this is what means the most to me of anything that I'm doing. I've been taking care of senior dogs in my community through grooming and and other services for years now, but I just can't manage the whole world, unfortunately. I get people who contact me every day from other cities and even other countries who are looking for solutions for their senior dogs and groomers who are looking to be able to learn the skills. Karin (23:38.896) Yeah. angela dinsmoor (23:48.162) So the the certification is a series of six courses. And they start off the first course is teaching groomers when it's okay to stop a groom, because I feel like that's the most important piece that we as groomers feel like we're letting ourselves down, we're letting our employers down, and we're letting the the clients down. If we don't successfully finish a groom, it's a fail. So I'm trying to I'm trying to reset the focus a little bit. On doing what's best for the dog on that day. Some dogs show up and they're not in the shape that they were last time you saw them and they can't tolerate a whole groom. And professional judgment, we're the experts when we see dogs on the table. As groomers, we are the experts and our professional judgment, if it says that the dog is not safe for a groom that day, we have the ability to call that. We just need to step into that and and we need to accept that it's okay to tell people we can't finish and here's why. the second course deals with, like as you mentioned earlier, behavior and stress literacy. So it's teaching groomers how to read behavior and difficulty on the table sooner. I had a conversation, I'll just throw this in there. I had a conversation the other day with the owner of a salon who, you know, she said she's not actually a groomer, but she said, Yeah, our groomers do a really good job of handling senior dogs and they're really compassionate and they really seem to like the dogs, and they don't tell the clients no just because they get too old. And all of that's fantastic. There are some corporate salons and some other places that put in hard stops for grooming at a certain age. but but then in the very next breath, she told me, Yeah, we had a standard poodle on the other day who on the table the other day who had a barking seizure and then pooped on the table. And course two, the second course in the certification program is to help groomers avoid getting to that point. it's the the whole purpose is to Karin (25:41.263) Mm-hmm. angela dinsmoor (25:43.542) To be able to enable groomers to read stress and behavior and body language sooner so that they don't have those moments where the dog goes into shutdown mode and they have to stop the groom. And so that they have a course going forward that makes more sense so that they can manage them more safely next time as well by reading the stress signals sooner. The third course is teaching about the physiological aging process so that groomers understand like what aging actually looks like on an old dog. Karin (25:53.894) Mm. angela dinsmoor (26:13.97) so that one is just it that one's more like learning to recognize aging in a dog and how it affects the grooming process, the modifications they can make to the groom because of what they're seeing in aging changes. And the next course is about Karin (26:28.091) gonna inter I'm gonna interrupt you for just a second because you list scri skin fragility and of course that totally makes sense because as we age you know we know that our skin becomes more fragile but I don't know that I had ever actually thought about it. of course if I were taking care of an older person in the hospital I would be so careful with their skin but I don't know that I've ever internalized that I need to start doing that with dogs as well. angela dinsmoor (26:31.405) Sure. angela dinsmoor (26:35.17) Uh-huh. angela dinsmoor (26:39.117) Right. Right. Я Karin (26:57.083) So I really love that. angela dinsmoor (26:59.042) Yes, that's one of the things I think we over we underestimate how the skin changes and senior dogs. They bruise more easily. They burn more easily. They the skin tears more easily, just like humans do. So there are things that we need to be considering as groomers too with the old it's it that goes more for like the you know, the sixteen, the seventeen. I deal with dogs. I've dealt with dogs. The only oldest one I saw was twenty two. So I'm talking like, you know, depending on the size of the dog again, anywhere from like, you know Karin (27:09.659) Yeah. Yep. Karin (27:22.47) Wow. angela dinsmoor (27:27.416) 14 to 20 ish, those kinds of changes happen. They're not happening in the seven-year-old dogs in most cases. Yeah. So, and so course four works on teaching groomers how to recognize pain on the table. A lot of times. Karin (27:29.583) Yeah. angela dinsmoor (27:44.248) Clients will bring their dogs into the salon or put them in the mobile vans and and you ask them how the dog's doing, and they'll be like, Fine. He's not, you know, you a I ask all the time, is he on pain medicine or does he have any pain on a day-to-day process, a day-to-day basis? And they'll say, No, no, the vet doesn't have him on anything. He must be fine. But then I get them on my table and they're very obvious signs of pain. And that's where that two week recovery kind of situation comes from. where maybe the dog's not been diagnosed with pain because either the veterinarian didn't Karin (28:07.793) Mm-hmm. angela dinsmoor (28:11.608) check for it or the owner didn't think to mention something about it. These are still gaps that are happening in in vet care for senior dogs right now. but if I can see symptoms and signs of pain on the table, it doesn't even matter what it is. I can't diagnose it. It does it's not relevant. But if I can see it and make an adjustment to the process for the dog, then I can shorten that recovery window significantly for them and have them not even go through some of those issues. And then the fifth course teaches medical complexity. So I work I work a lot with dogs who are at the very end of life. So dogs who are, you know, some dogs I see only once or twice because they're euthanized soon after that. but they still need to be groomed because they still need face, feet, and tail done. They still need to be cleaned up so that they can get around safely and go potty safely and so that the owners can see them and recognize them, you know, see see the face they've always known and loved when they look at their dogs. So I work a lot with dogs of those Karin (29:00.56) Mm-hmm. angela dinsmoor (29:07.778) in those situations. And I think one of the things that groomers can really learn to do that sets them apart from their competitors and the others working in the industry around them is learning to understand the different medical issues that a senior dog is living with all at the same time and how that affects the dog's ability to tolerate a groom and then how to adjust the groom accordingly. So and that's that's one of the biggest pieces of what I do on a daily basis is I Karin (29:33.625) Yeah. angela dinsmoor (29:37.164) I talk to people and I find out what the dog is dealing with and then I develop a grooming plan that fits that that dog's needs on that day. And then the sixth, the sixth course kind of puts it all together for the certification piece. So this that one's the it's that's the capstone where they're they're learning to like execute all of these things in the everyday grooming that they're doing with their clients. Karin (30:00.513) So I I spend a lot of time on social media and LinkedIn and reading research papers and I see this small group of people who are starting to really take the ownership of this area of senior dogs. And are you seeing the same thing? Are you seeing that people are recognizing that we need, you know, just like puppyhood has its own protocols and puppyhood is about, you know, pottying and socialization and all of those things. Are you seeing this a a growing body of work around seeing your dogs in the US and other places? angela dinsmoor (30:38.058) I am and I'm so excited about it. I did this work what in what felt like a vacuum for many years because I, you know, nobody even and and I think the grooming industry is a little behind the curve and and veterinarians are largely behind the curve too. That the group of veterinarians who's out there educating and and changing the status quo for how aging looks for senior dogs and how it looks for owners to manage that for their dogs. Karin (30:44.209) Yeah. angela dinsmoor (31:04.91) They're really pushing the needle on that and I love to see it. So yes, they're getting more vocal, they're getting more visible. I'm hoping that we can draw the same changes in the grooming industry because I feel like the grooming industry gets overlooked a lot as it is. I mean, we're groomers are doing amazing work and they're doing incredibly difficult work. And I still have people like randomly, I still had somebody ask me not that long ago. so you just basically like sedate the dog. right like to groom them that's you know you just give them something you give them a pill or something and then that way they're easy to groom and I'm like no and I wish people didn't think that I mean it's that's less common I mean I that that particular person may not have been as up to date on all of the things as everybody else but but the grooming industry is like we're definitely Karin (31:39.787) yeah. Karin (31:51.899) Right. angela dinsmoor (31:57.56) People don't understand how the grooming industry works and they don't understand how much we love the the the dogs that we see and how hard we're trying to do the best we can for them. so I'd love to see that change for senior dogs too. Karin (32:10.159) I'm really excited about it. I I think one thing that owners should take away from this is that yes, you go see your vet, but your vet may be you know, especially if there's nothing obvious that's wrong, your vet may not notice some things and your your groomer is with your dog for a longer period of time in challenging situations and will have really good feedback. And it's important to remember that the groomer is a critical part of your team in the care of an aging dog. I I think it's a little bit underestimated how strong that partnership is and how it supports what you see as an owner and what your vet sees and then adding in what the groomer sees. angela dinsmoor (32:59.176) Agreed. And I think that some of these veterinarians who are emerging now as advocates for senior dogs, they're they're recognizing groomers as sort of a first line of defense and information on this on these pieces that because, you know, many of us have experienced the dog that you take into the vet because there's something clearly wrong with them and then we get to the vet the dog is fine, right? Because they mask sympt symptoms because of the nerves and the chaos and the And the challenges of being in a veterinary clinic. And you know, I've always had dogs like that too. But groomers, especially a groomer who's been working with a dog for many years, they have a great rapport with that dog, and the dog is not nervous of them. And so they're not guarding, they're not masking symptoms. The groomer can see very clearly changes that maybe were more dialed into qualifying or quantifying than the owners are because we work with you know, a vast quantity of dogs where the owner has two dogs or something. And then if we give that information to the owner, you know, if they take it to the veterinarian, that can be invaluable into sometimes saving lives, you know. back problems and and, you know, all kinds of changes that we see on the grooming table can be really integral to diagnosis and providing comfort for the senior dog as he's aging and and Karin (34:08.527) Yes. angela dinsmoor (34:21.784) Groomers definitely deserve credit for that skill set. Karin (34:26.417) There's also a really nice thing for groomers. You know, owners are with their dog every day and they don't notice the small changes. But a groomer might be going, I don't know, every six weeks or every four weeks or or whatever the time frame is, and they can remember, okay, so the dog was able to hold up its hind leg for longer last time. Now it's really struggling. And in those angela dinsmoor (34:38.531) Yeah. Karin (34:51.661) six weeks or whatever it was, they have declined and they can point that out. And it it just gives a freshness to the perspective because it is very easy to live with a dog and not see every single change. You know, you you just get habituated and start to think it's normal. And then someone can point out, actually, maybe it's not angela dinsmoor (35:04.707) Right. angela dinsmoor (35:12.684) Yeah, it's very obvious to me many, many times when I go into clients' homes. when did he not when did he start off weighting that right front leg? Or, you know, when when did you notice he wasn't hearing, you know, the the doorbell ring anymore? Or when did he stop getting up to greet me? He didn't he always greets me at the door when I come to see you and today he's not here. Is that normal for him now? Have you noticed that in the past? Grimmer's in a really good situation to notice a lot of those little things because Karin (35:36.506) Right. Yeah. angela dinsmoor (35:41.994) It's so true. It happens with senior people too. that like day to day minuscule changes that don't scream to you, but when somebody shows up at your door or when you take your dog into the grooming salon, the it's very evident. Karin (35:45.112) Mm-hmm. Karin (35:56.613) Well, Angela, it has been just wonderful talking to you today and spreading the word a little bit about your program, your certification. I I love this. I think it's a great thing. And I I love that there is more recognition of the senior dog and the special care that they need. So I really want to showcase your work and I hope that. people will check out your website. Do you want to share your website, your socials, ways people can follow your work and get in touch? angela dinsmoor (36:32.856) Sure. Yeah, thank you. It's my website is www.graywiskers.dog. And I have a newsletter. Basically I have a newsletter, I have a community, and then the certification. They all you can find them all right on that gray whiskers dot dog. and then as far as social goes, it's Gray Whiskers Pet for Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and I think Twitter. Those that's my social handle, is generally Gray Whiskers Pet for everything. Karin (36:50.235) Fantastic. Karin (37:03.205) Fantastic. Thank you so much for joining me today. angela dinsmoor (37:06.68) Thank you so much for having me. This is a great conversation. I really enjoyed it.