How Mentorship and Curiosity Added to Cami Lewis' Career as a Dog Groomer and Handler

Karin (00:01.357) Today my guest is Cami Lewis. she is a groomer. her business is called Showstopper Groomers, and she's located in Florida, and I'm really happy to welcome her. Cami (00:15.768) Thank you. Karin (00:18.297) Cami, tell us a little bit about yourself, your background with dogs and your business. Cami (00:23.864) Sure. So I've been a groomer for about 18 years. I started in the vet industry as a vet tech, and worked my way into the groomer's heart, I guess, and started in creative grooming and then worked my way into breed standards. and I worked towards my NCMG, which I finally finished a few years ago. I opened a grooming salon that was fully booked for about seven years before I sold it and went mobile. And I've been showing standard poodles and recently a few other breeds for the last three years. So just kind of progressing through the the industry, I guess, of dogs. And you know, I've loved them my whole life and this is currently where I'm at and still have, you know, future goals to keep going. Karin (01:21.593) Mm-hmm. Karin (01:28.313) So let me just back you up a little bit. The certification that you mentioned, the NC I'm missing the acronym. Yeah, NCMG. Tell us tell us what that is. Cami (01:39.34) Yes, n N C G National Yeah, that's okay. So the n the NDGAA, the National Dog Groomers Association of America, it was one of the oldest ways to get certified in the industry in the United States. it was recently, I believe in the last two years. the AKC has taken over the that that part of the industry. and they're still working on changes and things like that, but NCMG is nationally certified master groomer. You have to learn all of the different breed groups, breed standards. and it's just there's there's multiple ways to certify, but it was the the main one that I wanted to focus on. Karin (02:34.497) So how long did that actually take you? Because I know like I groom my dogs, but I only know standard poodles and I would only groom a poodle or a doodle because that's my knowledge base. How how intensive is it to learn all of the other things? Cami (02:46.337) Yeah. Cami (02:51.026) I think it depends on the person, the groomer, and what you put into it and how often. because as as you know, there's terriers, there's different coat types, there's different breed standards for every breed. So me personally, on top of life and running a business and and raising children, it took me probably five years to really fully accomplish because you have to do testing in person. and and testing which now you can do online but before it was you you had to do a written test in person. so it depends on the person. I had a lot of the breeds memorized by the time I was 10 or 11 years old. Some people are just now learning as they start their grooming career. So I think it depends on it depends on the person and your knowledge on the breeds and the groups in the first place. Karin (03:48.971) And do they randomly, you know, test you like you show up and you don't know what kind of trim you'll have to do? Or do you have to do a trim in every group? Cami (03:59.798) You do have to do a trim in almost every group. there's sporting, non-sporting, short-legged terrier, long-legged terrier. and You have you can pick that, you have to find the dogs, which is kind of the hardest part because you know how many clients do we really have that have dogs that are in breed standard trims? You know, bichons, poodles, setters, cockers, and the terriers that require hand stripping. So a the hardest part I think for a lot of people is finding the dogs, and that's actually how I got into Into the dog show world because that is that is your entryway to finding the right dogs for your certification, regardless of whether you do IPG, ISCC, or NCMG, you have to find those dogs to test on. So befriending people in the show world is is a quick a faster track to do that. Karin (05:05.452) That's actually a really good point. And I'll just make a statement to everyone that I have poodles that I would loan out to someone because I think it would be a good experience. And I I do have dogs that are good on the table and can be groomed in a proper trim. but i I I would totally fail. The only thing I could trim would be a poodle. So kudos to you for doing all of those trims. It it really is an accomplishment. Cami (05:28.577) Yeah. Cami (05:32.878) Well not. Karin (05:35.442) and I applaud you for going for that national groomer tight certification. Cami (05:41.037) And and I think there is there's pros and cons to everything. I think if you I've been told by multiple people that if if I just focus on one thing, I'd be really amazing at that one thing. The problem is I like to do all of the things. So I so so I think there's there's ups and downs as far as you know learning all of the different breeds, but I I want to know hand stripping, I want to know terriers, I want to know sporting dogs, and so knowing enough about each of them to certify. I and I think that's for for any groomer that really that really want that has that same goal, just keep doing it, pluck away at each breed, at each group, and and eventually you get there. Karin (06:31.577) So so talk a little bit about how you started showing dogs in addition. how many dogs do you have and what was that journey like? Cami (06:37.59) Mm. Cami (06:43.15) So I actually I was introduced one of my one of my favorite longtime clients, her name's Mary Rice. She introduced me to my mentor in the show world, Kay Pizer. And originally I went to Kay because I was breeding my first standard poodle and I wanted I knew In my head at the time, I knew exactly what I wanted. I had a white standard poodle, I wanted a black standard poodle. I was very specific about color genetics and improving the one that I had. I knew my poodle's flaws. and so anyway, I was introduced to Kay and I I bred to one of her males and produced a phenomenal litter. and then While I was there, I said, Do you have any poodles that I could borrow for a grooming competition in a couple of months? And she said, Yes, but you'll have to take her home and and maintain her and because you know that's your job if you want to borrow it. And I said, Okay, no problem. And she was my silver poodle that I have, tink. And when I brought her back after competing. It was for one of my employees actually. So I the poodle lived with me and my employee maintained it. I was teaching her she wanted to start competing and she competed with Tink. And then when I took her back to Kay, Kay said, Do you want to co-own her and show her? And I said, I've never stepped foot in a show ring. but I would absolutely love to learn as long as you know that I know nothing about it. and And she said that's fine. And she literally just handed me this opportunity. which like I get emotional about because I'm so grateful. She's an amazing dog. She's beautiful. and I Cami (08:47.168) Kay showed me and she Kay showed her a handful of times and she taught me and she molded me because I didn't she's like, What are you doing? I'm like, I I don't know. I told you that. and I got her championship. I got her championship and then I got her grand championship. And there were shows that I did every once in a while on my own, but for the most part I showed up with Kay and I just I was like put me to work. Karin (09:13.473) Wow. Cami (09:14.895) and so I was grooming her dogs and my dog. And so anyway, that's how I got started. And that was about almost three years ago. Karin (09:23.385) I'm pretty sure that I I know K Piser's name, of course. And I'm pretty sure that I've competed in the same shows as she. and I envy you for having that incredible relationship with her. having to learn by yourself. I can I I had to learn by myself for the most part. I had some mentorship, but f not at that level. Cami (09:44.854) It's just Cami (09:51.149) Yeah. Karin (09:51.335) And that is a really, really unique thing and you were really lucky. That's awesome. It's awesome to hear that she was so willing to help you. Cami (09:57.311) I she and it's it's interesting because I she's a force to be reckoned with. and I know I and I know the the top handlers to some people like myself and and so many others, you know, when you first come in and you see that like this top handler is winning over and over and over again and you're like, my gosh, how do they do that? Karin (10:07.001) Aren't they all? Yeah. Cami (10:26.144) They can be really intimidating. but I've had people come to me asking me for advice, and I'm like, listen, I still have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just lucky enough to be to have really nice dogs. And and even if I don't know what I'm doing, sometimes they win for me. but I tell them all the time, I'm like, you have to talk to Karin (10:42.657) Okay. Cami (10:49.908) Find the most intimidating person in the room that is winning. Because if you're too afraid to talk to that person, then you're too afraid to win. Karin (11:00.293) that's a really good point. That's probably why I'm not winning because Anrari intimidates me. Cami (11:06.734) And it's sometimes, you know, sometimes it's just the wrong timing or the wrong question. Maybe they snap at you or they tell you you're do you you're messing something up. But but if you just keep coming back and asking questions, you learn you learn so much from these people. And they're so used to having people ask them questions and then still not take their advice over time, you know, that that Karin (11:16.899) Yeah. Cami (11:32.183) that makes these people jaded as well is like I don't know they have to be careful about who they help. So my theory my theory is I just keep showing up and and I just keep if they need help, I help and if I have questions, I ask questions and if I screw up they tell me and Karin (11:40.163) Absolutely. Karin (11:46.221) Yeah. Cami (11:54.241) Yeah, I just, you know, if if anybody is just getting started and really overwhelmed, my biggest suggestion is find the most intimidating person in the room and go ask them the questions, all of the questions. And Karin (12:09.145) I will say, as intimidating as Anne seems to me, also Sarah Perchuk is also intimidating, but Anne has given me really nice advice. Like she's reminded me to play with my dog when I'm in the ring sometimes just to release tension. And like those are really nice tips to be reminded that you are showing your tension, which a lot of amateur owner handlers do, you know. it's not something you do constantly. Cami (12:23.49) Yeah. Yep. Cami (12:31.468) Yes. Cami (12:35.33) Yes. Yeah, we carry our nerves. Yeah. Yeah. Karin (12:41.653) well, I I just love this idea that you were mentored so nicely by Cape Heiser. That's really amazing. So you also breed your standard poodles. How many litters do you have off you know, what's your schedule like with breeding? Cami (12:56.55) I am v inexperienced, but experienced enough to be, you know. I have had two litters with my first standard and I spayed her after the last litter because I wanted to focus she was not championed I never showed her but she produced she produced my first dog that I showed and he was my first homebred champion he's he was amazing So my silver, I have sh this is gonna be her first litter. So I don't breed that often. I have focused more on making sure I have the right dogs and the right temperament and the right confirmation. so breeding is kind of newer to me. yeah, so I've only had this will be my third litter. I've only had two other litters. So showing and grooming has definitely been more of a priority, but learning what I'm doing is is more important. Karin (14:07.939) And what color standard poodles do you have? Cami (14:11.304) So originally I was strictly black or white. And then I got my silver who is beautiful. So I have my silver. One of Kay's stud dogs lives with me, Topper. He's white, but he carries silver, who I'm breeding Tink to. And then I recently Kay is allowing me to o co-own an apricot. And that's a whole that's a whole different journey to have a a dilute color in the ring. But but yeah, so I have I have black, white, silver and now apron. Karin (14:36.027) nice. Karin (14:47.053) Wow. I thought I would only have black standard poodles. Although my first two dogs, I had a black and a white, a cream. And Max Lieberman was my heart dog, and I thought I would only have black. And here I am with five cream standard poodles. Yeah. With each litter, I think I'm going to keep the black female and then the cream female speaks to me. So, Cami (14:47.958) Mm-hmm. Cami (15:04.664) Yeah. Cami (15:14.302) Right. And when it comes when it comes down to it, you really have to look at because even with the apricot that I have, I really wanted a red out of the litter. I was like, I want a red, I want dark red, and we looked at we looked at the red and we looked at the apricot and Kay said, If you want color, get the red. But if you want the better dog, get the apricot. And I was Karin (15:15.969) Y you can't always Karin (15:39.736) Yeah. Cami (15:40.78) Well, at the end of the day I want the better dog. So so it we look at the we look at the temperament and the and the structure of the dog ahead of the color and that's so anyway, that's that's what I've learned so far. Karin (15:44.183) Right. Of course. Yeah. Karin (15:57.57) I do like apricot. Bambi Kaminsky has a male that I have been in love with for years. I think I saw him in Poodle Variety, and he's a very light apricot. And I have just been in love with him thinking that he was just beautiful. I'm not particularly on the dark red bandwagon personally. it's just not a color for me, for a standard poodle. Cami (16:11.566) Okay. Cami (16:22.082) Yeah. Karin (16:27.293) but I would love to have an apricot in that lighter color like she has. Cami (16:27.351) Yeah. Cami (16:33.29) Right. Okay. And I think I know that I know which one you're talking about too. and I do the apricot that I did ha that I that I do have, she is a little bit of a the darker the darker apricot, which we're not sure w if it will lighten or darken, but we kind of see as she grows up. Yeah. Karin (16:49.325) Right. So you know how people have strong opinions about, you know, black coats being the best and white coats being trash? You hear that kind of thing all the time. What's your perspective on coat color? Cami (17:01.035) Yeah. I think it matters more about genetics than it does the coat color because my first white poodle, who is almost nine now, her coat is not the greatest. and she had pure white and pure black lineage. And Her father had amazing coat. His name was Alfie. He was from Gulf Breeze. And she did not. And she produced okay coat, but not really great coat, even on her blacks. And the silver. the silver is a less forgiving coat and they go through coat change for a very long time, which is very frustrating. but Topper, Kay's stud dog that lives with me, he is white with silver in his pedigree, and his coat is absolutely phenomenal to to scissor as far as competition. And the I have another black male that I kind of I I inherited and kind of stole him from from Mary Race, my client, but he's he's out of Lakeridge and Michelle Polito and his coat is phenomenal. So I think it depends more on genetics more than color. Karin (18:10.179) Yeah. Karin (18:20.547) Think it depends on genetics and my dogs are in the background. genetics. And I also think that as a self-taught breeder, I have made mistakes with my coat that made me think that my dogs had bad coat, although I was using the wrong product and drying out Mary's hair. and then I have two dogs that you know I can let Cami (18:36.93) Mm-hmm. Cami (18:40.628) Yes, yes. Karin (18:48.983) both of them go and just bathe them and blow them out and they have no mats, nothing. and they are all related, all cream dogs, you know, so a lot of it is genetics plus user error. Cami (18:54.721) Right. Cami (19:04.736) Yes. And I I do think a lot of people overthink the coat maintenance. You know, they add like hot oils and conditioners and all kinds of crap that just weighs down the coat. If you just get the coat cleaned and you prep it well enough, that's really all you need. Karin (19:24.011) I I used to do that. Yep. Cami (19:26.658) I we all do, we all do because we think it just takes so much more and then, you know, the the matting happens and the coat change and we add this and add that. And at the end of the day, I personally I use a clarifying shampoo every time I bathe my dogs. I rarely ever condition unless there's coat breakage or coat change or whatever. And that's it. I just make sure it's fluffed and combed and maintained. Karin (19:50.71) I Karin (19:55.46) I just switched product and Mary's hair is so lustrous and thick and rough. It's just fabulous poodle hair. So and I'm not conditioning her at all. It it's really it is kind of interesting how you talk yourself into thinking they need so much and you're actually not helping them sometimes. Cami (20:07.511) Yeah. Cami (20:21.778) Right. And a lot of it is diet based also. You know, what are we feeding them? Are they getting the the correct oils? Are they digesting things? There's so much that goes into it. on the back end of it, you really shouldn't need a whole bunch of additives to make your poodle's coat do what it's supposed to do. Yeah. Karin (20:25.441) Yep. Absolutely. Karin (20:41.921) Right. so do you have a favorite trim? Are you a continental, a modified continental, a saddle? Cami (20:48.013) Yeah. So I'll start by saying my least favorite is a modified Continental. I don't know why. I just don't think that it is appealing. I don't think that it complements very many dogs well. I think it makes them look longer than they are. Unless it's executed correctly and unless it's a very well structured dog. It's very rare that I see a modified continental. I'm like, ooh, that looks really nice on that dog. but I think my favorite is the English saddle. I it's complicated and you have to have the lines placed correctly in order for it to look Karin (21:11.481) I would it yeah. Cami (21:34.568) good on a dog and if you don't have a well-structured dog a saddle will not look correct on it. So I I love a really nice English saddle because I think that it really shows off a dog that is correct. Karin (21:53.06) So that's very interesting to hear. And on Instagram, I've actually been having a conversation with some other people and Shiracopoodles in Australia about English saddle. so that's very funny timing that that's your favorite. not many people execute it. Like you very rarely see it in a standard. You might see it, you know, you might see it in other s sizes, but not in the standard. Cami (22:05.805) Mm-hmm. Cami (22:16.353) Right. Karin (22:22.317) Very often. I agree with you. so I have mixed feelings about the Continental. I think to some extent it proves that we could have a part-time job because it it, you know, I I think there's something, there's an entitlement to a Continental that bothers me. I'm proving that I have an extra 10 hours a week to groom my dog. yeah. Cami (22:23.843) Right. Cami (22:30.83) Mm-hmm. Cami (22:35.072) Yeah. Cami (22:43.308) Uh-huh. Cami (22:47.36) Right. I get that. I get it. Karin (22:53.163) But I agree that the modified does not look good. Ex the only exception I would say is kind of a rare I've seen one woman that I've shown against who did have a great modified. The dog had amazing coat. He was just stunning and black. And I also think that my dog, Alfred, he was retired because he has Addison's disease, but in his first year of showing Cami (23:11.053) Yeah. Karin (23:21.773) He was pretty stunning in a modified, and part of that is just because he's such a big dog, that he I did show him in a continental after, and he looked better in a modified because he was just like, you know, great dane size in continental. Cami (23:37.986) Yeah. Cami (23:43.523) Well, and I I I do think that there's a challenge to both. So there's a challenge to showing a dog in a modified and if you can do really well in a modified, it it says more about your dog than anything else. and the same with an English saddle. If you can show a standard poodle in an English saddle and you can finish them, I think it says more about the dog being correct than it does anything else. So I think that they're both challenging haircuts to finish a dog with. And I think that if you can, it says a lot about your dog. Karin (24:19.841) When you're trimming the English saddle, do you maintain it every week? Like how once you set the lines, is it kind of like a continental you just trim a little bit every week? Cami (24:26.125) Yeah. Cami (24:30.417) Yes and You do every week a and you treat it like a continental because you still have the top coat to maintain as well. But a lot of times if you let it grow for two or three weeks in a row, those lines start to move. It's just like your rosettes. they start to scoot back off of the butt of the dog after a while. But the same thing happens. Your lines get lower, they get more incorrect, and if you're following those lines instead of resetting them, it it can Karin (24:46.317) Right. Yep. Cami (25:01.92) and make your dog look funny and you don't even realize it till it's too late. Right. Yeah. Karin (25:06.531) Right. So let's switch a little bit. before our conversation, I was poking around on your Instagram and I saw a tool that other people may not know that I thought looked really cool. I'm again blanking on the name of it, but it's the Heated Slicker Tool. And you're one of the ambassadors. So just give a plug to the product and tell us about it so that we all know that there's something new that we might want. Cami (25:33.421) Yeah. Yeah. it is called the Slicker. it's the Slick Air grooming tool and it is a heated slicker and it also has a new pin brush head as well. so that you can use it first for top coats or drop coats. but I Karin (25:52.924) that's cool. Cami (25:54.055) Yeah, I have I have almost completely replaced my stand dryer, especially when I'm traveling to shows and stuff, because that heated just to fluff things out, it's made a huge difference and competing, you know, a lot of times we prep our dogs the day before or two days before and we're just refluffing it. And so, it's a lot easier to to l haul around than a than a stand dryer. So I do love it. I use it often. I've had a lot of people at the shows, they're like, Whoa, what is that thing? And then they're like, No, I would never use it. And then they try it and they love it. So but I do love it. And Karin (26:29.005) And we when you're doing a maintenance bath, do you do you use a force dryer first and then when you would switch over to a stand dryer you you use that? Cami (26:39.466) Yes. Yep, that's correct. And so, you know, it's I still use a stand dryer here and there, especially on pet dogs. There's a difference between pet dogs that are getting done every six weeks that have super, super thick hair and maybe some knots or something to get through that I would still use a stand dryer and a brush to fluff out. But but for the most part, yeah, the slick air can do all of the things that the stand dryer can do with a you know. Karin (27:06.017) Where is it available and what is the price point? Cami (27:09.392) it is Slickair dot com and I believe they're one twenty nine, but I have a code CAMI one and it'll give you a ten percent discount. They're not. It's cheaper than a stand dryer. and especially for Karin (27:18.755) That's really not expensive. Karin (27:23.703) way cheaper than a stand dryer. Cami (27:27.274) Yeah, and especially for the people that, you know, I feel like in the grooming industry, a lot of groomers are not taught even how to fluff dry. And when they learn that, my gosh, in order to mi take my grooms to the next level, I have to learn how to fluff dry. And then they see the expense of a stand dryer, it might this might be the avenue that some people take in the beginning to really take their their quality to the next level. Karin (27:55.7) actually would love to get that for so when i show I typically don't take my stand dryer I have a speedy and I absolutely love it so I take my force dryer and I'll be honest my dogs none of my dogs like a force dryer so I don't use it that much I try to switch over to the stand dryer sooner Cami (28:04.93) What you Karin (28:20.097) I have a cement basement where my grooming salon is and I think the noise is just, you know, makes it uncomfortable for the dogs. and I have my headphones on so I don't hear it so much, but I know that they're not loving it and they definitely are more relaxed when I switch over to the speedy dryer. but when I show the slicker for for that price point, that could be a game changer. Such a nice thing to have. Cami (28:30.124) Sure. Cami (28:41.388) Yeah. Cami (28:50.934) Yeah, yeah. I I mean I I like it. I and and something not every tool or product is for every person, but I personally you know, I've I've loved adding it too, especially when I travel and show it is it's really nice to have. So Karin (29:05.591) Yeah, and for poodle people, I've I've also seen the new thing that wraps around your neck. I can't remember who makes it. Maybe Artero. Cami (29:12.044) Yes. There's a there's a few of them out now, but yeah, Artaro makes one, the neck dryers and I've tried those too and it's about the same as using a stand dryer with a slicker brush. I just worry about my hair getting sucked into the into the vents. Karin (29:29.689) A I actually think a slicker with heated air would be better for a poodle specifically. That would be my first purchase, personally. But everything is personal with grooming. Cami (29:40.972) Right, right. It really is. And and there's some things that some people love that others can't stand and vice versa. So but there's multiple things out there to get to get that finished product, it doesn't really matter what you use to get it. Karin (29:51.384) Yeah. Karin (29:58.372) So in that vein, what are your top like if you were on a desert island with a standard poodle, what tools would you have with you? And maybe you can only have three, let's say. What would you have? Cami (30:13.644) Hmm. Well I would my Artero Xtrons, the four and one clippers, because those go from like a 10 blade to a 40 blade. And they don't get hot and they stay charged really well. So I and I've had them for a long time. So I love my Artero Xtrons. my slick the slick air would definitely be another one. And then shears wise. I I steer towards the cheaper sets of shears, honestly, because they all come from the same places. They just have different brand names on them and different prices. I like my shears direct shears or my shears from Sharpie Sharpening. And I think between that and then I would need what else would I need? I guess those would be the only three things and you said three things, right? Cami (31:17.934) Yeah, my Xtron, my slick air, and a nice set of shears. Karin (31:25.953) Excellent. so let's also talk a little bit about how you like to share information. I'll just preface this for the audience that you and I had a a brief conversation about how there's a lot of information on social media and we were just kind of talking about how it's important for people to be accessing really important or or qualified information rather than just all of the stuff that gets put on social media and kind of wading through it. what are your thoughts about that? Cami (32:04.609) Yes. Cami (32:09.13) I think that we need to be careful on who we are getting free education from. So a lot of us like to scroll through and find free videos on social media, and a lot of this information comes from influencers instead of educators and who have put in the work for their knowledge. I think that the grooming industry as a whole has taken a little bit of a a little bit of a wrong turn as far as following influencers and not the right ones. I think that we need to focus more on looking And deciphering whether they are educators or influencers. and for me, the definition of that is what have what have these people accomplished? have they accomplished thousands and thousands of followers or have they accomplished groom team USA or multiple different certifications and best in shows or multiple breeds and things like that. And I think I think there's something that we need to look at instead of going for free education and investing in ourselves and our education because the true educators, they're probably wanna gonna want to get paid instead of just getting a like and a follow. So I think that we need to be careful about who we're getting our information from and really looking at the educators instead of the influencers. Karin (33:52.516) That is such a good point that there really is a difference between an educator, someone who is trained, qualified, certified in some way, as opposed to someone who is just posting things to share information, but really does not have a body of knowledge behind them. and it can be very hard. Cami (34:17.508) Right. Karin (34:19.723) It can be hard, you know, when you're scrolling to determine who is who, you know. Cami (34:24.866) Right. And I guess you just have to ask yourself where's where's your proof? if you're looking into if you're looking up to someone, where is that person's proof? so even even when you're looking at like what certifications do I get? What's my next step? What what process do I go through? If you're looking at NCMG or you know, the AKC which took over, there are a lot of questions about that and who the certifiers are anymore. A they're they've gone through a lot of changes. So if do your research. And if that's not a good fit for you, like I put in all of the work and all of the effort, but at the end of the day, so much has changed, I even question myself, should I go through IPG? Should I go through ISCC? What is my next step? So do your research and follow the people that have proof behind it. Karin (35:27.417) Excellent advice. So you have a conference coming up, right? Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? Cami (35:34.409) Yes. yes, so this will be the second annual Elevate Grooming Summit, but I have been hosting seminar events for probably the last four or five years. I like to get different educators to come in and teach groomers. Karin (35:50.958) Mm. Cami (35:55.535) And so this year we're doing not necessarily breed standard because a lot of pet groomers, you know, all we see is doodles and mixed breeds. And so I wanted to focus on Asian fusion and freestyle and really improving your speed without sacrificing quality. So that's what this event is circled around. But I really like hosting at least one event a year to help. local groomers find education that they're that they're not gonna get hands on locally. so yes, this one is Karin (36:32.151) Yeah, yeah. There really there really is a big difference. I think sometimes people underestimate that pet grooming and show grooming, you know, that you can bridge that very easily. And it's not actually true. you can, of course, but you don't automatically know show trims or show maintenance as a pet groomer. Cami (36:51.052) Yeah. Cami (36:56.812) Right. Karin (36:56.905) so that's a really, really aw amazing opportunity for people to attend. It is a live event, right? Cami (37:04.596) Y yes. It's a live event and we have hands on also in the afternoon. So you can bring your own dog or a client's dog and and really practice hands on, which I think we are losing as as a community for for groomers and things like that. learning online, you can watch it all you want, but until you really get your hands and your scissors in front of someone else watching you, they can pinpoint like, Hey, I Karin (37:06.306) Okay. Yeah. Cami (37:34.092) I notice that you're holding your scissors like this. If you hold them like this, you're gonna have a better result. So I think in person is something that we're losing, but is more important than ever. Karin (37:46.008) I actually know that someone would correct how I hold my scissors, but I still hold my scissors wrong because I I you know, when you are self-taught, you accumulate all of these bad habits that do limit how well you execute a gr a trim. It it's just unfortunately true that most people are not that gifted. Cami (37:49.942) Mm-hmm. Cami (37:57.507) Yeah. Cami (38:02.57) Right. And a a lot of times you just don't. Right. You and you don't know until you learn that you don't know. so Karin (38:13.355) Exactly. Cami (38:16.246) I think that it is. Even if you even if somebody doesn't come to one of my events, I think it's really important to go to as many events or even if you don't have a lot of people say, well, there's no local events around me. Find a show groomer or get a hands on with with someone. I at least once a year I go to Pina and I get hands on lessons from her because it's just I don't care how much I know, I can always know more and I can always be better. Yeah, Karin (38:47.255) Yeah, that's really, really important. So just in case people don't know, tell us who Pina is. Cami (38:54.474) Irina Pink Yusevich. she works with Groom House and she's an amazing show groomer. She knows all of the breeds, all of their breed standards. and I just I I have always look up looked up to her as far as that's that's how I wanna be. one day, you know. so I so as much as I can I learn, I I try to learn from her. she's been a judge for me in my grooming competitions and just a wealth of knowledge. Karin (39:29.475) So this is kind of a funny coincidence, but yesterday I was cleaning out my closet and I came across this note on a notepad piece of paper that has a poodle on it, and someone many years ago had written down for me the names K Pizer, Brittany Val, and Irina. And I'm looking at it right now. It's something that I I didn't throw out when I was cleaning yesterday, but it's kind of funny that we've talked of two of the people that someone recommended to me probably ten years ago at least. and here we are talking about them as legends in the industry. Cami (40:06.26) Yeah. Cami (40:11.234) That's so funny. And it's, you know, and these are the people that have the proof behind it. Pina was, you know, groom team USA International Groomer. I don't know all of her, you know, certifications and qualifications, but the proof is there. So that it just kind of goes back to my point of like be careful who you're learning from and make sure that you're you're asking like, where's the proof? Karin (40:17.945) Yeah. Karin (40:34.465) Right. Right. Yeah. Cami (40:37.664) So and I think that's what's hard for for me because I And this is something I've had a big problem with over the last four months for me personally, because I teach pet groomers a and I teach a lot of pet groomers. I and I teach a lot of bathers that want to be groomers. but sometimes I reach a point and I'm like, am I qualified enough to be teaching these people? Or am I do do I have to give more proof in order for them to feel the value of learning from me? And I think that's kind of where I'm a little stuck. And it's you know, I have a quite a I have quite a large following or a larger following on Instagram and Facebook and things like that. But do people really know who I am and what my qualifications are or You know, and so I will always teach someone what I know, but if I don't know something, I will always, always, always point them in the direction of someone else that has more proof than I do. Karin (41:44.406) Right. I love that. I I think Instagram is a tricky all all social media is kind of tricky because you you put your information into this huge algorithm and there it's not obvious to people that they should be looking at you or Arena or K Pieser or any of the other people. And that's one of the downfalls of it, especially when the audience is new and susceptible to information. Cami (42:15.767) Right. Right. Yeah, I agree. And it's it's tough, but just keep learning and and you eventually weed through the people. but I'm always happy to take help, but there's always there's always someone that knows more. Karin (42:29.463) Yeah they're Karin (42:35.211) Always there, you know, everyone is learning always. you can learn from all kinds of people. I've picked up things here and there. I love I love when I set up near Anne Rory because I can watch her entire team. And it's one of those subtle things like I used to be ready way too early. So I try and watch Anne to see when I really need to be ready. You know, like you you see how the pros are handling their day when you're an amateur owner handler, and it really can change what you're doing. Cami (43:01.518) Mm-hmm. Cami (43:05.772) Yes. Yeah. It can and I and I know that, you know, there there are the people out there that would be snotty if you asked a question and just kind of shrug you off. it happened to me in the Terrier group ring and I'll never forget it. But but at the same time, like what's the worst that can happen? If you have a question and and you want an answer to it, the worst thing that'll happen is you don't get the answer. and and someone's mean to you, and then you just move on. But Karin (43:25.154) Ha ha ha. Cami (43:41.74) I always say like I I'll always take a dog in if someone asks me to. I will always try and help if someone asks me to. What's the worst that could happen? I look stupid. At least I learned something. So Karin (43:54.881) And in general, I think that most show people are willing to help if you show, you know, if you're there on time, if you're doing the right things, if you are obviously trying to learn and get better, I have found that people are so helpful. Cami (44:00.097) Yeah. Cami (44:07.809) Right. Yes, I I do agree. And I think I think if more I I think the the grooming the grooming community and the sh and the show community, they a lot of groomers don't see the benefits and the ties between the two, but I think if people would just go to the dog shows, it would make a world of a difference. I mean you see schnauzers and you're like, wow, that's what they're supposed to look like. and so so anyway, I d I love both. Karin (44:35.008) Right. Yep. Cami (44:40.886) I love all of it. I love d showing dogs, competing with dogs, and and grooming pets. I I enjoy every part of it because I think it all ties in together. Karin (44:53.251) I think that's the perfect note to end this conversation. I I love your enthusiasm. I love that you do a little bit of everything. And that was really the nicest way that we could end. Cami, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been really lovely talking to you. Cami (44:56.716) Yeah. Cami (45:04.525) Yeah. Cami (45:10.318) Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Karin (45:13.026) It's been my pleasure. Cami (45:14.604) Ha ha ha.