Journey to Westminster: Behind the Scenes of a Golden Retriever's Show Success

Speaker 1 (00:04.142) Hi, I'm Karen. And I'm Elise. Welcome back to Poodle People. Where we talk about all things poodles. Speaker 1 (00:15.106) Hi Heather. It's so nice to connect with you. We've been talking a lot, but it's just really nice to get together. Yes, I'm so excited to be on the podcast again. Thanks for having me. So for our guests who are just tuning in, Heather Blakeman is joining me for a repeat of her very popular episode. It's episode 13. So we won't recap too much from that. I would really encourage everyone to go back and listen to episode 13 and all of that information firsthand. But Heather has a lot going on, so Heather, just give us a a very brief recap of your credentials, your experience, and what's going on with you currently. Okay, I'll I'll attempt to keep it brief. There's a lot happening. Yeah, yeah. Well, I am a certified professional dog trainer. So you'll see after my name the the credentials CPDTKA and I've worked in the behavior field for a little more than a decade now. I also have that FFCP, so figure-free certified professional, and that is a product or Speaker 2 (01:30.082) Byproduct, I guess, of my involvement in the veterinary field for more than 20 years now. My full-time primary job is now being a hospital representative for TruePanion, but I've always kept alive a sort of part-time profession as a professional handler in confirmation. So that's going to be our topic and focus today because we're so excited that I will be. Lucky enough to attend the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show in February for the first time as an exhibitor with a beautiful, beautiful show dog named Makers, who's a a golden retriever. Heather, it's really exciting that we get to talk about this achievement because it's an achievement for both you and for makers. Tell us Tell us a little bit about what you expect, like what you're really looking forward to, and then I'll ask you about makers. Sure. So the Westminster Kennel Club dog show, of course, is historic. It's one of our longest lived dog shows and it's a really unique experience at at the top of our sport. So even just making it to be able to compete at that show is, you know, a a lifetime achievement. Yeah. It's also really unique from the perspective that it is, I believe, one of very few, if not the only remaining benched dog show around. So in the olden days, that was the way dog shows happened. You know, you had a benching set up where your dog needed to check in at a certain time and stay all day, go to their ring, and then return to their bench until the benching time was up. Speaker 2 (03:28.044) So this show still runs in that fashion, which is going to be a a brand new experience for me. So really looking forward to that. Yeah, that sounds exciting. So the show is in early February, the first week. I mean, it's the eight to the tenth, right? Eight, tenth, and el eleventh. Through the eleventh, yes. We actually show on Tuesday the eleventh. And it's at Javits or Madison Square Garden. They're both listed on the website. So clarify what Yeah, it's at both. so in the olden days, this was the show at the Madison Square Gardens. over the years and especially over the last five years since COVID, the show has kind of grown to the extent where they couldn't comfortably fit it at Madison Square Gardens anymore. Speaker 2 (04:23.814) And so what they've done is split the show and they've put the daytime events that require a little bit larger square footage at another place. So they've had it at like Lindhurst Mansion in the past, a few other convention centers. This is the first year it's going to be at the Jabbitz Center. And it really Will you be in Javits or Madison Square? So we'll be in Javits for the breed competition. and if you know the incredible happens and we win the breed, then we would go to Madison Square Gardens for the group competition in the evening. So just an FYI, I've been to both venues, Madison Square Garden many, many times. yes. Jacob Javits is overwhelming. So know that as you go in. Madison Square Garden is a really lovely facility. I adore it. But Javits is very modern and huge and exhausting. So just think about that and figure out. Don't let yourself get overwhelmed because you'll have a lot going on. I'll go ahead and call out a resource that I found that other listeners might want to check out. have really been impressed by the Westminster Kennel Club's efforts to help people feel prepared for this show because it is so intimidating and it is so different from our typical show. So they've actually put out a couple of kind of Speaker 2 (06:00.298) Exhibitor orientation videos. Donald Sturz is the the president of Westminster Kennel Club and he hosts those videos and went on site to show you exactly where you will be unloading or walking into the entrance from above if you are not unloading and really walked us through what to expect. even in covering like shuttles from the host hotel to Madison Square Gardens and Jabbit. And anytime you are doing something in New York City, you also have that extra stress and excitement which can take a mental toll on both you and makers. So, you know, not like you're going to a small country venue here, you know, you are seriously in the big time. Yeah. Speaker 2 (06:51.251) New York City, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so totally exciting. Tell us a little bit about Makers and how he qualified. He's obviously special, but tell us a little bit about him. He is just wonderful. So I've been lucky enough to be involved with makers since he was, I I think he was ten weeks old the first day I met him. wow. yeah. His owners, Mary Nell and Larry, brought him to me for an evaluation and we started training him like immediately. So this dog has been literally training for this moment for his entire life. Wow. He is a young dog, so we think he might be the youngest golden retriever in competition at Westminster. That is because to qualify to show at Westminster, they do need to be a champion of record. Yep. And Makers is already a grand champion and was before he turned three years old. He turned three years old yesterday. Actually, so he is in that breed that is like unheard of. Most golden retrievers don't even go out, you know, on the circuit and start showing in earnest until they are fully matured because it is such a competitive breed. So yeah. Speaker 1 (08:17.686) And have you shown him the entire time? I have not. So I have been his handler for a few really fun moments. So I I put his first points on him as in the classes out of the puppy classes. I also put his first breed win on him at the the big Louisville dog show and started him on his journey into the grand champion points. But he's had a truly high profile just master of the sport handler. Madeline and Adam Peterson have been his handler when he goes out on the road. And I'm kind of the support back home because they're local to me. I help keep him in training, in conditioning, so that he is ready when he does go out for his full-time show stints. And he's also had, I referred them to my dear friend and Wonderful, wonderful handler Kristen Lawless over the summer while I was on maternity leave. She took him out. And if they are local, how did you end up with the lovely opportunity to show him rather than them? Speaker 2 (09:35.244) I think again we we just have that connection from me working with him and and training him. Whenever we we get the opportunity, I I love to go take him and and present him at the local shows and the shows when he's kind of in his off season. So the Lexington show, the Bloival show, when he's not officially out on the road on the circuit. That is so nice. That's wonderful. So it's lot of fun. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about grooming and coat maintenance for a golden. Yeah, so I I love to talk about conditioning because that has been my my primary involvement with him is conditioning and I think most people think about coat conditioning, coat maintenance first. So I work primarily with double coated breeds. So golden retriever, Australian Shepherd, Bernese mountain dogs, those dogs all have a very similar coat type, and it does require Speaker 2 (10:37.058) I think more maintenance than people recognize and realize. So I talked with makers' owners when we first said, hey, we're going to Westminster, let's get a plan together. We started planning back in November to prepare his coat for February. It takes about that long, even with a male who doesn't have to deal with the hormonal fluctuations. So we got him on a bathing regimen of once weekly. Ideally, bathing as he's coming up to a show in the off season, they are aiming for a minimum of every other week bathing, and more important than bathing is drying and drying with a good quality forced dryer that doesn't use a lot of heat to then allow you to line brush that coat and remove all of that dead, over you know, spent. coat to allow for new growth. And yeah, it that's kind of our our coat regimen. And does he get to go out without a coat, without leg covers? You know, what is their how do you protect that coat? Yeah, we're lucky with a golden retriever. They're really what I would consider a wash and wear breed. So a correct golden retriever coat. Yeah, not like a poodle at all. There's a reason I don't show and condition standard poodles, bless you. Golden retrievers really, if they have that correct coat, I think it literally says in the standard that it's supposed to be like a straight coat with Speaker 2 (12:17.184) undercoat but that is water repellent and very weather resistant. Yeah. And they really don't have, if they're correct, an excess of furnishings. So we certainly want to encourage and protect those, you know, furnishings that do grow. But a little ice on ice conditioner is what I recommend during the summertime, especially to protect from UV. But really there's not a ton that you need to do other than that just kind of removing that dead spent undergrowth. And it's really nice that you are not dealing with a white coat because then you have to worry about grass things. Yes. Yeah. No, I I am very, very glad there's no whitening in this breed. There's really less product than you would think in this breed. So you just use a force dryer, you don't use a force dryer for most of it and then a heated dryer? Speaker 2 (13:20.844) Really don't have to with makers. He has a very correct coat. It is pin straight and it dries beautifully, lays perfectly with just a forced air dryer and a comb. and yeah, I'm sure if you had an an incorrect or wavier coat, you would want to put a heated dryer on them in preparation for the show, but I've never had to do that with him. He's really like you could just get him ready with a water spray bottle and a brush, honestly, most days. So yeah. So Let's talk about how you physically conditioned him because I think you've been working with them on exercise and physical conditioning for a while now. Absolutely. so you know, preparing a dog for this kind of top-tier competition, I want to give him every chance to you know, stand up to the the competition. And those dogs are out on the circuit, you know, every weekend in preparation for this show. They are getting road worked, they're running around the ring, you know, peak physical condition. and this dog, you know, this breed. should be shown in you know quoting from the standard hard working condition. So judges are looking at, you know, especially at a competition like this where the structure is already, you know, such these are high quality dogs that you're going to see in the ring. They are going to be, you know, splitting hairs looking at is this dog in peak physical musculature in terms of being presented on that day. Speaker 2 (15:02.826) So the first thing we actually started with is is backing up and looking at what are we feeding this dog? You know, looking at the nutrition and the supplements to make sure that he is getting what he needs to be able to put on and maintain that lean muscle and you know support coat growth at the same time. and also just have a good immune system because he is going to a a tough Dog show. It is gonna be a little bit stressful. This is just like going to the Olympics. It's like getting the Olympics. It really is, yeah. So I had them speak with their veterinarian. You know, always, always recommend talking with your veterinarians, but then getting him on a a balanced diet. so he eats Royal Canaan Golden Retriever brand, I believe. And we just, you know, we literally calculated his energy requirements. and Right. Speaker 2 (16:00.238) Tracked his body condition score from the beginning and said, okay, this is how much we're going to be feeding him, and let's not knock that balance off by adding in too many toppers or treats or anything like that. Let's add in some omega-fatty acids supplementation to allow for the coat growth and support. Then let's talk about exercise. So once we had kind of that base foundation laid. Then we were able to start looking at exercise. And this I've I've had some help and support with here. So I do want to call out our friends at Central Kentucky Veterinary Center. So makers went to their sports and physical rehab department for a consultation and to get started on a plan for getting him into peak physical condition. So part of that is involving exercises that they recommended that he do at home. And we're also doing some just dry treadmill work with me at my house once a week. And his owners are walking him. I think they said they're doing like two miles a day and going up the steps at Bellerman, like 212 steps a day. So they're getting in shape with him, I guess. But really, really neat, you know, what what they're doing at Central Kentucky is using their underwater treadmill to help to target his thigh muscles. He already has a really strong core, but we wanted to really emphasize, you know, again, that hard working condition that they would get from working in the field, from retrieving, swimming, and present him, you know, as if he is then working the field. So they're doing underwater treadmill work to provide resistance, even doing sprint training in that tank. And I think that is so, so cool and and makers loves it. Speaker 1 (18:10.392) Really was exciting. It's so nice to see the dog world doing things that we have used, you know, techniques we've used in the horse world for so long. and it is so similar. There are different things like cavaletti or sprint work or bending or all of those things that we've been using in the horse world. I think my opinion has always been that it's more common in the horse world and it's more rarefied in the dog world. So it's really nice to see it spilling over to regular dogs, even though maker is not just a regular dog. Yes, yeah. No, you're you're a hundred percent correct that it has been you know fairly rare in the veterinary world until the last, I would say the last decade. at least in this area, it's really starting to take off. And I believe that department is still fairly new to central Kentucky. I think they started it maybe two years ago or so. Yeah. Yeah. That's about right. So what was I going to ask you? Do you see his nutritional requirements increase with all of the activity he's doing, or has it not really needed to change? Yes, so that is something that we addressed in my first kind of consultation with them. We looked at, you know, first tracking exactly what his intake was prior to starting on this new regimen. and then I did, you know, again, because I I come from veterinary world, I always look at, you know, what tools do we have there. And anybody out there that's listening can go to their veterinarian. Speaker 2 (19:55.744) And ask them to calculate the dog's RER or resting energy requirement. So that is what nutrition, what calories the dog would need just to maintain kind of a baseline. And then we can multiply that by a factor that is influenced by that dog's activity level and also by that dog's intact or spade or neutered status. So Because Makers was going to start having an increase in his activity level, we did start by multiplying that, I think, by a factor of two. And so they did increase his intake a little bit. And each time he goes into central Kentucky, they're tracking his weight and also his body condition score. So they can make recommendations based on where he's at. But we are shooting for a body condition score. Of about four and a half out of nine. So that's kind of the ideal where we've got good musculature and minimal fat coverage, like a good amount of fat coverage over the hips and where you can feel the ribs but not see them. But what that will allow us to see in the confirmation ring is you know, makers movement will not be. impacted by excess weight. So he is a phenomenal mover. He is extremely balanced. He has good reach, good drive. and I want to make sure that as he goes around the ring, you know, that's on display, his solid top lines on display and he's not rolling because he's a few pounds overweight. You know? Right. So are you using the treadmill to improve reach and drive or just overall conditioning? Speaker 2 (21:52.374) Yeah, so I like to think of what we call road work in the sport. So road work is, you know, if you go to a dog show and you see somebody working a dog next to a golf cart or they've got their bike out and they're, you know, working the dog on a long line off their bike, or you're working the dog on the treadmill, it's all with the same purpose. It's a, you know, providing cardio and you know, the chance to kind of strengthen. muscles and B it's to improve foot timing. So giving the dog a chance to kind of get into that ideal speed that we want them to just kind of slide into from muscle memory when they are going around the ring. And really that's two speeds. So the speed for when they're going around the ring as they're going around the ring for the judge to look at the side gate might be a different speed than the speed that you choose to take them on the down and back. So I actually work them at two different speeds on the treadmill. And I also work them at a a pacing speed or a walking speed to warm up and cool down. But that's what I'm looking for is at what point does the dog move in an ideal fashion that's not too fast or too slow to exhibit that ideal movement for that dog and letting the dog just kind of get into the flow of gravitating towards that speed when we ask it of them in the ring so that it's just, you know, without a thought, they just go right into that speed. Right. So how often are you putting him on the treadmill and for how long? Speaker 2 (23:40.268) Right now we are doing just once a week because they are putting in so much work and effort outside of that as well. so they're going to, you know, Central Kentucky for the water treadmill and they're doing their own walks at home. If he lived with me, you know, in an ideal situation, you know, you have a live in dog and a treadmill, you can put him on there, you know, once a day. and You do want to talk with your veterinarian again to get a good idea of where to start. I put my personal dog on the treadmill about, I would say, five days a week. And he's a little bit older. So we're kind of starting him from a baseline of about a minute to warm up at a a walk. And then he does two minutes of trotting. And then he does about three minutes of a cool down walk after that, all on an incline. And he does really well with that. But what you don't want to do, and what we really don't want to do with makers, especially, is move too far too fast. So this is the art of making sure that we're kind of doing low impact work that is going to be sustainable. And increasing it very slowly so that we're not gonna cause injury. That's the last thing that we would want to do heading into Westminster. And you also don't want him to get bored with the treadmill, whereas when he's walking or swimming, those are much more exciting activities. You know, he has he can use his all of his senses, and the treadmill has that slight downside. I I use the the treadmill for Emmy when she was pregnant and she went on every day. and she didn't look pregnant when she was pregnant and she doesn't. Speaker 1 (25:30.7) look like she has babies right now. So I'm a huge fan of the treadmill. But it's not something, you know, you don't want to drill on the treadmill, especially looking forward to something like Westminster. Yeah, and I do actually I'm glad you brought that up. So with makers, we're doing multiple short sessions. So we put him on it, you know, get up to speed, maintain that for a little bit, cool down, and then we get off and we do something else. And I use the same approach for the what I consider kind of the last and what might be the most important part of our training and and conditioning, which is doing that kind of behavior work. And so in between our sessions on the treadmill. I get him out and we do put on the show lead and we do hand stacking, freebaiding, gating work in preparation for, you know, our presentation and just kind of working through exactly how we want to finesse that. So if you are limiting his treats, do you also limit his treats during that free baiting stacking session or do you use treats then? Yeah, so good question. I am using fairly high value treats for my sessions with him because they're once a week. and we are using, you know, we he actually has decided he loves babybell cheese of all things. So we're using babybell cheese and nukes treats, which are pretty low calorie, but I'm not too concerned about it because it's a once a week kind of thing. Speaker 2 (27:13.676) Now at home he has homework with his owners, are doing some free baiting work with him and they're just using his food bowl for that. So they have him stand. Every time you feed a dog is an opportunity to train is how I think of it. so getting back, I had a question that I forgot when I lost my train of thought, but does he do any other modalities like beamer or acupuncture or massage? Or are those not really part of the the regimen right now? They're not currently because he's just been really an easy, healthy dog. I would say he's required minimal maintenance of any kind because he is just a well put together, correct dog. Now yes, and he's young and he's young as well. Yeah. But I certainly have recommended with other client dogs that have had some spells where Maybe they had some sore connective tissues or strained or sprained something that they reach out to their veterinarian. you know, there's so many things that they can do. I was talking with the central Kentucky folks, and they are you know, they do PRP, so platelet rich plasma, they do stem cell, acupuncture. think they're looking at getting a therapeutic ultrasound and an electrical stimulation unit. So there's just so much you can do. And I know other handlers and exhibitors swear by their chiropractic as well. So yeah, there's a lot out there that you can do if you need it. And we're lucky enough that we haven't needed it yet. Speaker 1 (28:52.866) Visits? Yeah. Speaker 1 (29:01.87) Yeah, at three years old and in peak condition, it's really nice that he doesn't need it. And swimming might be just enough of that, you know, it may give his muscles a release that way. Does he absolutely love the swimming? I would love to have a home pool for my dogs. It's like my my dream equipment piece. Right. So he I think I believe his owner said that his first session with the water treadmill, he was kinda like, What is happening? And he wasn't so sure at first, which is a very common, normal reaction, but he's definitely getting the hang of it. Now, the other golden retriever that I have been working with, who is a a brother to makers, his name is Trace. He actually has a swimming pool at home. So he has already been in like pretty awesome physical condition from that. And they just started doing the underwater treadmill therapy as well at Central Kentucky to maintain that through the winter, especially before he went out with the the big time handler for the show circuit. And he loves the water treadmill. Like anything water that dog is he's all over it. So he's a big fan. So you basically have one month, right? I mean, just a little bit shy. How early are you leaving for New York? Like when will you be there? Yeah, so I am going a little early. my sister's going with me and we're gonna do a little little sightsee day on the weekend and then we're going to attend the daytime events on Monday at the Jabbit Center to support our other friends who are showing. so on that day I think they've got herding and Speaker 2 (31:01.986) Maybe non-sporting and I can't remember the other one that's showing that day, but so we'll we'll get to get eyes on everything. They're opening up the center for setup for the people who are coming in on Tuesday that evening. So we will actually get to put our our table and our crate into our benching area on Monday evening. And yeah, that's that's kind of the layout of things. That's awesome. So in addition to your sister and obviously his owners, who else is going to help you? So this is pretty wild, but Makers has a serious cheer squad attending with him. He has about twenty-five people flying in to watch him. So we're we're affectionately calling them the Makers Bark Squad because he's named after the the Makers Mark Bourbon. His owners are so sweet, they've gotten everybody a little token to kind of wear. for him. They're gonna be wearing makers mark scarves as we go around the city together, so We are having a little bit of makers to celebrate. Speaker 2 (32:17.854) I am sure you know a lot of us are from Kentucky, so absolutely. But yeah, I think a lot of them have what they call bourbon shots. So maker's sire is bourbon, is his call name. And he's been a very popular sire, so there's a lot of bourbon shots. out there and almost all of them are named after other bourbons. So I mentioned Trace. he's named after Buffalo Trace. There's an Elijah Wood. So Fantastic. That's so much fun. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So have you picked out what you are wearing? It. Speaker 2 (32:58.508) Yes. Yeah. So I've I've actually gone through several phases. So you know right. So get the opportunity to wear something that you would never wear at a normal, you know, weekend show circuit at Westminster. So we say, you know, the suit has to be Westminster worthy. Right. so Exactly. Speaker 2 (33:21.914) I will be, it looks like if it works out, it's in the mail on its way here. I will be sporting a Saint John that is bright red covered in palettes and sequins. which yeah, I would never normally do that, but I was like, you know what, let's stay on brand with the the maker's mark theme and it's Westminster, and you get one chance to to make an impact. And yeah, by golly, I'm gonna. you know, give him every shot he's got 'cause he is he's a very deserving dog. So This how would you describe his personality? He's extremely outgoing and exuberant. He thinks the entire show dog thing is a game because it has been, you know, since he was 10 weeks old, we made it a game. So he loves to freebate and is just it's almost a job of keeping him kind of tamped down when you're in the right. Whereas a lot of my other breeds, you know, I work with Bernie's mountain dogs and you're like Please look alive. Like, please look like you are enjoying this because they're typically just kind of like, if you want me to, okay. Whereas he's like, yes, let's go. You want to go around the ring three more times? Absolutely. So he loves it. Yeah, but Speaker 1 (34:45.974) That's fantastic. I will say he's grown up a lot lately. I'm very much enjoying this new three-year-old makers because he does settle down outside of the ring now finally. He's he's finally got it now in terms of when when you can use the off button, when we can turn it on for the ring too. Right, right. And he probably has a very promising life as a stud dog. I would think so. I mean again, his his father's been very successful and now that I think he's old enough to get all of his health clearances, I'm sure he's gonna be popular as well. Exciting. So it's been wonderful talking to you about this incredible achievement. I mean, it's really exciting when someone achieves a goal like this. I'm so excited for you. I know that you're going to have the best time, regardless of what happens in the ring. I mean, I will be cheering for you and hoping that, you know, you are everything. But I have a feeling that you understand that the experience is going to be amazing regardless. Speaker 2 (35:57.562) yeah, we we are, you know, just I wanna soak in every second of this experience. I'm sure it will be a whirlwind, but yeah, it's bucket list activity for sure. you are going to have to come back on and tell us what it was actually like when things have settled down and you've gotten home because there are so many interesting things like you'll probably have observations that you can share that will help other people who are aspiring to eventually make it to bigger shows. And I think that that would be really fabulous to hear. I would love that, yes. So if anyone wants to follow you or maker, how should they connect with you? What would be the best way? Yeah. I think his his parents are pretty active on social media. Certainly on Facebook, I'm sure they will be posting about his success and his experience. I don't know if they have an Instagram page yet, but we may have to create one for him soon. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 (37:07.519) So what were their names again? Just to remind me, just in case anyone missed that at the beginning. Yeah, so it's Marinelle Haas, H A A S, and Larry, and it's Foxmore Golden Retrievers. more golden retrievers. Okay. Fantastic. And I forgot to mention his co owner and breeder, Edna Fox. So she's been involved in the breed for a very, very long time. So And you occasionally post pictures of him because that's how I knew it was his birthday yesterday. Speaker 2 (37:39.262) Yes. Yeah. I love to to share all of his accomplishments and developments. So you can absolutely look me up on on Facebook is kind of all my my business page is also my personal page. So people can find me there. Super. thank you so much for joining and sharing this really fabulous journey with us. I'm so excited for you and Maker. it it's such such a fabulous achievement and I'm really excited for you. Thank you so much. So we will definitely have you back on and I will be watching, of course. and I hope everyone else will be tuning into Westminster so that we can see the fabulous dogs. So what day he's Tuesday? Yes, he is on Tuesday. That's the day that they're doing the sporting and working, and I believe Terriers. and yeah, if you go to the Westminster Kennelclub.org website, they will have links to live breed judging there and also information on how to watch the group judging later that day. Excellent. Speaker 1 (38:50.894) Excellent. And do you know what time roughly you'll be in the ring? We do the program is up. So he is showing at ten fifteen against thirty-eight golden retrievers. So that means yes. Yeah. Yeah. Golden retrievers are always one of the bigger entries. so it should take probably a little bit more than an hour and a half to get through all of them. Big clock. Speaker 1 (39:21.334) That's a lot. It is. We've I mean, yeah, it's it's intense. this is a breed where there's many cuts made so they bring them in in smaller groups and work them until they kinda have the last men standing or in women. Wow. Okay. Do you get nervous or are you pretty you know? I mean, I certainly used to get anxious and nervous, but when you have a a dog that you know is, you know, as good as this dog, it it eliminates a lot of the worry. So all you have to do is go in, have fun, and you know, just do do your best. And you know, you've been really successful in the past. So I'm hoping that he'll get a good look that will, you know, at least make a cut. Fingers crossed. So we'll see. Well Speaker 1 (40:18.316) Plus of luck and thank you ever so much for joining me again to tell me about this fabulous journey. It is so much fun to learn about dog showing through you. Thank you so much, Karen. You guys take care with this winter weather. Good luck to you and maker. Okay, we'll see you soon. Thank you. All right. Bye bye. Speaker 1 (40:39.981) Bye. Speaker 1 (40:43.778) Hey, thanks for making it to the end of the podcast. Just a few details. If you have any feedback or questions, you can email poodlepeoplepodcast at gmail.com. You can also leave feedback on Spotify or Apple, and we will read those messages. You can message me on Instagram either under the Poodle People Podcast handle or my personal handle, strong contestant no-o. And feel free to visit my website, Scotch Corner Standardpoodles.com. You can see pictures of my dogs, my breeding program, my current litter, and you can find the link to my application on gooddog.com if you are interested in a puppy.