How a New Penn State Program Aims to Transform Dog Breeding Education

Poodle People (00:00.851) Hi Abby, it's so nice to have you here with me. Abby Hodder (00:04.245) Hi, thank you for having me. Poodle People (00:06.701) I'm really excited to talk to you. I loved finding your webpage and reading a little bit about what you were doing. So I'm really excited that you had time to come on the podcast and share a little information. But before we start talking about your new position at Penn State, I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about your education and background before you got here at Penn State University. Abby Hodder (00:34.316) Yeah, absolutely. So I'm actually Canadian. And so I did my undergraduate degree at Dalhousie University in Nova Scotia. And that was a Bachelor of Science in Agriculture majoring in animal science. And then I went on to do my master's in animal welfare and behavior at the University of Guelph. And then I went on to Calgary after that and did a second master's in veterinary medical sciences, which still had a heavy focus on behavior and welfare. And then I had once I after I graduated, I started my own business working with the public on canine education and behavior. And this included, you know, one on one teaching classes and things like that. And then also working with shelters. So I did that for about two years. And then I got the position at Penn State and here I am. Poodle People (01:29.575) Very cool. It's so nice to talk to a Canadian. I always find it interesting to learn because there are, you know, you're our neighbor to the north, but there are slight differences. So it's always interesting. Abby Hodder (01:39.822) Thank Absolutely. Poodle People (01:43.999) So before we get into your new position, let's just continue talking a little bit about you. What kind of dog do you have? Abby Hodder (01:54.442) I have a working-line German Shepherd. Yeah. Her name is Yara. Poodle People (01:57.051) Awesome. And what's her name? Yara. So what kinds of dogs, is Yara the only dog you've had or you've had others during your childhood? Abby Hodder (02:08.654) So she's currently the only dog I have at the moment, but yes, I grew up with dogs. had a golden retriever growing up and then family and close family friends had German Shepherds and Brittany's. So I had lots of dogs around luckily growing up. And then after my golden passed and I was still in school and wasn't really sure where I was going to end up. So I actually decided to foster through a couple of shelters. I did that for a few years and so I had lots of dogs around through that and then finally got the dog I currently have today. Poodle People (02:45.769) Fostering is such a good way to build skills. I wish that I didn't have a pack of dogs and could foster. Abby Hodder (02:49.294) Thank Abby Hodder (02:53.144) It is. I did really enjoy it and sometimes I miss it and I would like to continue to do it again. Of course, right now with my workload and everything, one is more than enough, but no, was really rewarding and it was nice to work with a lot of different dogs. Poodle People (03:08.159) Yeah, I have a friend who fosters a lot and she does both dogs and kittens. So she gets a lot of experience and a lot of exposure and she's in between dogs. So it's a really nice way for people to, you know, contribute. Yeah. So does Yara get to go to work with you? Abby Hodder (03:14.829) on. Abby Hodder (03:26.581) Absolutely, absolutely. Abby Hodder (03:34.478) No, unfortunately, she does not. So my office is on campus. And so of course, only service dogs are allowed on campus. And I'm not even sure if she would enjoy coming to work with me and hanging out in office all day. But at least with my job, I'm very lucky where I don't have a teaching appointment right now where I'm teaching students. So my job is quite flexible. So I can work from home or work on campus. And when I travel, I do bring her with me when I travel. Poodle People (03:47.972) my god. Yeah. Abby Hodder (04:03.938) That's always fun. Poodle People (04:05.289) Yeah, traveling with a dog is wonderful. Abby Hodder (04:07.745) Yeah. Poodle People (04:09.599) and adds a slight element of safety or at least makes you feel like you're safe. Abby Hodder (04:14.66) absolutely. Yeah, she's a great travel buddy. you know, anytime I go somewhere new, of course, the US is new to me as well. So whenever we're driving or traveling somewhere, I usually make a note to stop somewhere, you know, that I wouldn't usually stop if I didn't have a dog. So we go, you know, we've got to see some different lakes and beaches and hiking spots and whatnot. So that's always, always fun. Poodle People (04:22.76) All right, yeah, yeah. Poodle People (04:27.964) Mm-hmm. Poodle People (04:38.631) that's super. Do you have a favorite spot outside of Pennsylvania? I won't ask you, you know, to pick your favorite Pennsylvania spot, but. Abby Hodder (04:43.759) Honestly, I can't say that I have a favorite one. I've really, really enjoyed everywhere that I've gone thus far. So I think that's a really good thing. Every state has something different to offer. So I think that's what makes it difficult to pick a favorite. Poodle People (04:54.783) Yeah, that's wonderful. Poodle People (05:03.697) Right. So you had your own business before you joined Penn State. How did you get into that? Abby Hodder (05:14.966) Yeah, so of course, growing up with dogs and things like that, but when I was at Guelph, the research that I was doing specifically was around horses, but a really good friend of mine, their project was with canines. And so myself and a few other friends helped her with that project. And so that's really where, you know, the passion for dogs has always been there, but the more education and specific behavior component related to dogs kind of started to evolve. And then once I went to Calgary and then of course with my foster dogs, that definitely kind of sent me down the path of learning as much as I could and working with these dogs and things like that. So throughout that time, I was just trying to get as much hands-on experience and knowledge as I could. And then once I was finished at Calgary and kind of trying to figure out what my next steps would be, whether it's continuing education or what jobs would be out there, it had always been a passion of mine to start a business. And of course, educating is something that I love to do. So I decided to give that a go and see where that would go. I did, I really enjoyed it for those couple of years. Poodle People (06:32.659) That's very cool. I enjoy educating too, but I just don't feel like I have the training skills. I'm not particularly good as anyone will tell you that my dogs are spoiled and, you know, kind of rotten. But I do enjoy educating. So I kind of use the podcast as my outlet for education. Yeah. Abby Hodder (06:41.591) Yeah. Abby Hodder (06:48.046) You Abby Hodder (06:53.281) I love that. Poodle People (06:55.613) So tell us a little bit about this new position that Penn State created and how that came about. Abby Hodder (07:04.206) Sure, yeah. So my position is to create a canine extension program at Penn State. And so really the importance of that is to provide education and support to dog breeders. And so the position came about from an external funder that actually approached the university that they had learned that the breeding community wanted more education and research and things like that. And so they created this position and approached Penn State and Penn State, you know, made it happen. And here we are. So. Poodle People (07:43.071) That's awesome. So if any of our listeners are wondering what we mean by extension, Abby and I both work at a land-grant university and all land-grant universities in the United States have cooperative extension. It looks a little bit different in each state. I'm in Kentucky and for us, we have a cooperative extension office in every county. And our mission is to work with producers and to apply our research to their needs. So it is very applied and the research is not done in an ivory tower. We are very reactive to what people need. Abby, do you feel like that is the same in Pennsylvania? Abby Hodder (08:36.204) Yeah, and I think, you know, we also have a lot of educators throughout the state that work, you know, directly with the public as well. And, you know, even if they're not doing research themselves, they take what, you know, researchers are learning and report back to them and they take that information and educate that and, you know, provide education to members of the community. So, yeah, there's lots of different positions within Extension, which I find really, really cool, actually. Poodle People (09:04.788) Yeah, and extension, you know, ranges from sewing to covering topics like canning food to crop yields to invasive pests, all kinds of issues that people need information on and we Cooperative Extension provides quality information. Yeah. Abby Hodder (09:09.472) Mm-hmm. Abby Hodder (09:27.082) Exactly. That is the goal. Poodle People (09:30.623) So it's really exciting because I think that you're the first extension canine program. Abby Hodder (09:37.944) So yeah, I mean, for a specific program thus far, it's the only one that I've found, we'll say. I've been looking for others. There are lots of other extension programs out there that have canines as a component of what they do. Purdue has a really great extension component that they look into. Actually, they do some research in commercial breeding and things like that. but overall, it's... Poodle People (10:01.608) Right. Abby Hodder (10:05.334) Certainly more of a niche area in terms of the dog breeding perspective. It's from Penn State and Purdue. Poodle People (10:08.979) Right. And, you know, certainly other universities are doing research into other issues like genetics or specific diseases, cancers, those kinds of things. But the Extension Canine Program is a very different application of knowledge. Abby Hodder (10:31.746) Right. Yeah, there's a really heavy component of working with the public and that's my primary job, right, is to provide help and education to whatever needs that they're looking for. Poodle People (10:37.363) Yes. Yeah. Poodle People (10:45.215) So how have you spent your first year? Have you met with lot of breeders and organizations? Abby Hodder (10:52.498) Yeah, so my first year, really the emphasis or importance for this year is really to build relationships. So I needed to know what the needs are specifically. And, you know, in order to do that, it's meeting as many people as I possibly can. So that's included multiple different organizations. I've met with different researchers and different institutions, breeders, which, you know, Poodle People (11:00.636) Mm-hmm. Poodle People (11:09.961) right. Abby Hodder (11:18.69) however you want to define them. There's, you know, the preservation breeders, hobby breeders, commercial breeders, all of those things. So I've been able to meet a lot of people this year, which has been great. It's been fun. Poodle People (11:23.679) Right. Poodle People (11:30.589) Yeah, how many miles have you and Yara put on your vehicle? Pennsylvania is a big state, but it's beautiful. Abby Hodder (11:34.67) Too many. It is, yes. Poodle People (11:41.823) So what do you feel like you've accomplished this first year and what do you hope to do in the next year or few years? Abby Hodder (11:52.194) That's a great question. I think this year I have been able to make a lot of really good relationships, especially with different breeders and things like that. And I've been lucky that I've had a lot of support along the way and there's been a lot of people that have been very excited about this program and things like that. So everyone in that regard who's helped me has been wonderful. So that's definitely been the highlight of this year. Poodle People (11:59.135) Mm-hmm. Abby Hodder (12:18.326) And so for next year, my plan is to really start kind of making this program look like a program in terms of, you know, actually having educational articles, webinars, workshops, and things like that. you know, we actually have something, something to learn. Poodle People (12:26.783) Mm-hmm. Poodle People (12:37.725) Right. That's exciting. Abby Hodder (12:40.43) It is, it is. Poodle People (12:42.559) So land-grant universities usually have a primary focus of their state. Can you talk a little bit about the situation and the audience in Pennsylvania that you will be serving? Abby Hodder (12:56.974) Absolutely. so, you know, my overall vision for this program really is for anybody, you know, anyone that has a passion for dogs and wants to learn more that they can, you know, go on the website and, you know, learn as much as they can attend workshops and webinars if they'd like. the main focus that I'm currently, that is my current priority is dog breeders and specifically commercial breeding as well. So. Poodle People (13:24.863) And do you have a sense of what commercial dog breeding looks like in Pennsylvania? how many dogs would that, does that look like to you? I know that this is, you know, this varies. Abby Hodder (13:39.47) It does. It varies. And so we have dog law here in the state as well. so, you know, all commercial breeding operations and things like that are required to be licensed by law. And so it does vary in terms of how many dogs each kennel has. And so, yeah, it's definitely a wide variety. I've seen quite a few, but there's also a lot that I haven't seen. Poodle People (14:08.863) Okay. And is the licensing, is it kind of like you have to meet certain criteria or are you just paying a fee? Abby Hodder (14:20.664) So you do have to meet certain criteria. within the laws, there's a lot of different definitions of the different licensing that's required. And so I can't go into all that because I don't even know all the different ones. But no, there's a set of requirements that they do have to follow in order to be licensed. And if they're not doing things properly or things like that, so they get inspections twice a year. And so if. Poodle People (14:29.471) Mm-hmm. Abby Hodder (14:47.552) if something's out of place or things like that, you know, there is penalties associated to that and whatnot. So it's a whole system. Poodle People (14:53.161) Okay, right. So we're going to be talking about things and I just want to mention to our listeners that we are trying to come from this from a place of respect both for the breeders and for the dogs, of course. So I hope everyone remains open-minded as we kind of parse through some of these slightly challenging topics and the things that we are going to be talking about. Because I think just keeping an open mind is so important because we are, if we don't talk about them, we don't learn and understand things, right? So thank you. So I guess I'm a preservation breeder, although I don't really call myself that, but I am. breeding standard poodles and want to improve the breed. Abby Hodder (15:33.452) Yes, but you said that beautifully. Poodle People (15:51.549) but I also could be considered a backyard breeder, I guess. I have one or two litters a year, so I'm very small. And I think that these kinds of terms are tricky. Puppy mill is something that gets tossed around a lot and is almost always a negative term. how are you kind of... processing these different terms and do you have conversations with breeders about this? Abby Hodder (16:28.36) Yeah, that's a great question. And it's something that in a way has been a little bit challenging as I've dove more into this world is, when you do ask somebody, what is an ethical breeder? You get a thousand different definitions. And then, yeah, like you just said, there's, you know, backyard breeder, hobby breeder, preservation breeder, you know, there's just, there's a lot of different terms there. And so, I have spoken to some breeders about this and it's an area that I'm trying to actually gain a lot more information in and is there a way that we can actually create these definitions and really dissect them. And I also think that education comes along with that in order to kind of be unanimous in what we actually agree on on these terms or what these terms should be, I should say. So it's, yeah, that's something that's on top of my brain and something I'm hoping to look into soon and get the public involved in that as well. And actually creating, figuring out these definitions, right? Poodle People (17:27.741) Yeah, I- I think that that would be such a service to everyone because none of the terms are, in my opinion, none of the terms are particularly positive. Like obviously puppy mill is not positive, backyard breeder is not positive, and preservation breeder sounds kind of snobby and you know. Abby Hodder (17:45.39) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Poodle People (17:57.311) like it's excluding other people. And I think that there's a little bit of judgmental behavior or they sound judgmental is what I'm trying to say. Abby Hodder (18:08.876) I agree. I agree with that. I think there's a lot of people that think there's, you know, only one way of doing things. you know, there, there is other ways of doing things. And so I think that that's, know, where we could kind of explore that more and kind of create these definitions and yeah, not be so negative about all of these things as well. And, you know, actually talking about it. Poodle People (18:15.014) Yes. Poodle People (18:33.253) Yeah, it's interesting because I do have a bit of a horse background and people typically do not have, like you don't call someone a backyard breeder in horse terms, you know, it's just not like you're not really pejorative that way. And there are some people who are racing thoroughbreds who have one or two horses in their stable. And, you know, that is unusual, but it's Abby Hodder (18:44.246) Yeah. Yeah. Poodle People (19:00.049) awfully cool and I think if we could find a way to celebrate people wanting to breed dogs and you know I am a standard poodle person, I always will be and I want to improve the breed but I also understand the joy of breeding animals and why people would make decisions to breed. Abby Hodder (19:21.774) Yes, I love that. Yeah, that's perfect. That's exactly what I want to get more into is that it's okay if people have different goals for their breeding program, even if it's not what you think it should be, so to speak, as long as the welfare and the ethics are there for the dogs. Your goals for your breeding program, they can be for sport, it can be for service dogs, it can be Poodle People (19:42.313) Right. Abby Hodder (19:50.232) Purpose bred sport mixes, that's a thing. If you want to preserve the breed itself, if you want to breed for companion dogs, there is a place for all of that. And it's okay if we have different goals. Poodle People (20:03.751) It really, you know, there is a big wide world and we need quality puppies. I would personally hope that people stop breeding every single thing to a poodle because the poodle is such an amazing breed, people have different goals, they have different objectives. So I love that you are trying to address this. Abby Hodder (20:27.446) Yeah, and I'm hoping that we can have some good discussions because while I know that there's a lot of people with really strong opinions on things, I think there is a lot more people that feel the same way as we do. So, need to get on the platform to be heard. Poodle People (20:38.973) Yeah. Poodle People (20:42.623) Yeah, so I have spent a fair amount of time in Pennsylvania and I know you have a lot of Amish people. Is the Amish population, are they a big part of your breeding clientele? Abby Hodder (20:52.046) Mm-hmm. Abby Hodder (21:03.052) They are. They are. Poodle People (21:05.951) So they often are used in specific horse areas like to break horses or to help with difficult horses. So they have very particular skills. Do you find that that's also true in dog breeding? Abby Hodder (21:24.13) You know, I think that what I've learned thus far is, you know, when it comes to dogs in the Amish, there's not a very good feeling around them. I think with a lot of stigma and a lot of things that have happened in the past, there's a lot of feelings around there. And a lot of times they're kind of put into one box. And then people kind of jump to the conclusion that, you know, they're all the same. Poodle People (21:45.577) Mm-hmm. Poodle People (21:50.612) Right. Abby Hodder (21:51.478) And that's actually something I've become quite passionate about in the last year is because I've met a lot of these people and the things that they're doing and the passion they have for their dogs has been extremely heartwarming. they're very humble about it. when I tell them what they've done is amazing and their programs are so great and whatnot, the first thing they all say of all of them that I've told this to is, yeah, but it was really bad. And, you know, there's still some bad breeders and, you know, I always remind them, like, we know, in fact, that's, that's really what most people think when they, when they think of that. But, you know, you, you've, you have done really well, but they, you know, they know how things were and whatnot. And there was a really big lack of education there as well. And it's like in any group, there's bad people in every group, right? But, you know, they've, a lot of them have really taken, you know, when we know better, we do better to a, to a whole other level. Poodle People (22:48.221) Right, that's very interesting to hear. I think it just illustrates that if we take the time to sit down and talk to someone, we realize so much about what they're trying to do. We understand it. And we are not born with tons of experience. I am still learning so much and always will be. I have more horse experience than I do dog experience, to be quite honest. And I love learning and I think it's really interesting. Abby Hodder (23:26.518) Yeah, it is. It's been such an eye-opening year in that respect, for sure. And also just learning about their culture and who they are as people as well and the hurdles that they're trying to overcome while also a lot of them are limited to social media. the negative narrative of them continues. And there's not a lot of Poodle People (23:32.989) Yeah. Poodle People (23:38.931) Yeah. Yeah, sure. Poodle People (23:46.58) Right. Abby Hodder (23:52.536) positive and they also like can't necessarily contribute to that. And just yeah, it's been very eye opening and something that I would really love to educate people on if they're interested in what's actually going on in the dog breeding world and you know, with specific communities as well and things like that. Poodle People (23:56.767) Thank Poodle People (24:12.617) You'll have to write a blog post for your website about that. So in your clientele, are you seeing trends in dog breeds or is it a huge variety? Abby Hodder (24:14.574) Yeah. Abby Hodder (24:27.48) There has been a wide variety. There is a lot on the smaller dog side. seeing, yeah. And so I think it's just because, you know, there, I mean, smaller dogs, they are quite popular, especially for companion animals and things like that. It's also, you know, smaller facilities and things like that. There's lots of bonuses to small dogs, but a lot of them really love the breeds that they have. And so there's a lot of Bichons and... Poodle People (24:32.895) Well, that's interesting. Poodle People (24:49.79) Right. Poodle People (24:53.929) Mm-hmm. Abby Hodder (24:57.358) shih tzus and dachshunds and things like that. But I've seen it, but I've seen all over. Poodle People (25:04.543) Yeah, I bet. I'm still learning dog breeds, I think. know, every once in a while I'll see something I'm like, I don't know what that is. Abby Hodder (25:13.408) Okay. Poodle People (25:15.999) So let's shift a little bit and talk about what good or appropriate socialization in either a puppy or a dog looks like to you. Abby Hodder (25:27.28) that's a good question. So when it comes to socialization, I mean, the most important component of that is creating, you know, there's, always two components that I talked about that are important. It's one, creating positive associations and how you're going to do that. Right. So positive associations are, you know, pairing new experiences with things that puppies love, right. And things that puppies love are, you know, food is easy. And I usually always recommend food because they're going to eat anyways. right, or play, you know, toys, things like that. And the second one is really thinking about preparing them for their life as an adult, right? And so making sure that you take into consideration all those things that they're, you know, when they go into their new homes, what are they going to experience, right? So kind of creating a list in that regard in terms of, you know, cars and kennels and leashes and vet appointments and grooming and handling and and all of those things, the list goes on. So I do like to see people be intentional about both of those things, right? Find ways to set your puppy up for success in their new home. So we're building confidence, we're building resilience, and we do that through socialization, which is making those positive associations. So yeah, that's really what I like to see people doing and being really intentional about it. Poodle People (26:53.545) So I can share a little bit of a story about my first dog, Max Lieberman. I knew that Max Lieberman had been raised in a kennel with his siblings and he was one of 12 standard poodles. They were all male. And this was over 20 years ago now in Kentucky, which meant that in this area, there were very, very few standard poodles. Abby Hodder (27:00.462) you Poodle People (27:24.083) And one of the mistakes or one of the things that I didn't really understand right away was that he had lived in the kennel and even though he was in the house some, he was kept in the kitchen. So when I brought him home, the first time I turned the TV on, he drew himself back up on his legs. Abby Hodder (27:39.214) Mm-hmm. Abby Hodder (27:43.874) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Poodle People (27:51.043) and was staring at this box that was suddenly talking to him. And he was like, okay, the furniture talks. And you could see the absolute confusion. He was not scared. He was actually a lovely dog, but he was like, wait, what? Abby Hodder (27:56.501) Yeah. Abby Hodder (28:01.525) Yeah, yeah. Abby Hodder (28:10.838) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so all of those considerations, right? When you're thinking where your dogs are going and most likely where they're going to live, you obviously can't cover everything, right? But the process of socialization and helping your puppies through all of that, you're building confidence, you're building resilience. It's also that when they're faced with new things or uncertain things that they're unsure of that they can also handle it, right? That's part of the process. Poodle People (28:16.318) Yeah. Poodle People (28:38.055) Right, right. So what do most breeders do? You know, what would you suggest they change in their socialization practices? Abby Hodder (28:50.508) my, well, I haven't seen every socialization program. I'm sure it varies, varies widely. I think sometimes people think that, you know, positive associations are like exposure. And exposure is very different, right? So, you know, if, you know, you have a puppy sitting outside of a park and they're watching kids play, there's, there's absolutely Poodle People (28:53.083) Hahaha Abby Hodder (29:15.168) a place for exposure, right? We're exposing them to seeing different sights and sounds and all of those things. And that's an important component, but it's the actually, you know, taking the time to make positive associations with things is the component that I would like to see more people do, right? So, you know, when we're teaching them handling and things like that. and you have some kibble, you touch their tail, you feed them some kibble, you touch their ear, you feed them some kibble or something like that, right? So you're just being intentional about, when this happens, really good things happen as well, right? So it's not something to be scared of and whatnot. And I think it's a really good way to learn a lot about puppies as well. I like it when people are more so hands off with puppies. I mean, of course there's gonna be times where you... You can't, you pick a puppy up because you have to weigh them. You know, I'm not talking about those sorts of things, but I mean, when introducing them to new people and whatnot, you know, especially kids or something, like seeing kids sitting on the ground because if they're sitting on the ground, they're not up walking around and grabbing puppies. But you know, sitting on the ground, you bring the puppies out and you know, the puppies have a choice whether to approach new people or new kids and things like that or. you know, if you are doing some handling things, instead of just grabbing their paw and clipping their nails, you know, we're just gonna start by touching their feet and seeing how they feel about that and following it up with some food. And you can gain a lot of really good information by doing those things as well. Because, you know, let's say you have, you're bringing puppies out to meet kids and all the puppies are, you know, running and jumping on the kids, but you have one that's a little bit, you know, a little bit more hesitant. And so that's information for you that, that puppy needs. puppy needs a little bit more work in this area. He's a little bit unsure and things like that. It gives you good idea on temperament and where you can help certain puppies and all of these things. Poodle People (31:00.223) could be. Poodle People (31:07.657) Yeah. Abby Hodder (31:09.832) There's lots more that I could go on a rant about, but in a nutshell. Poodle People (31:14.887) Yeah, no, I love that. I am always thinking about socialization and what I can do to improve my program. It's always challenging when you have a litter of puppies worrying about whether or not you're socializing them appropriately if you've given them enough. And for me with standard poodles, grooming is a really big thing. So I start them very early and, you know, to your point, I don't immediately start grooming them. They hear the dryer, they hear the clippers turned on, but not near them. It's a very iterative process. Abby Hodder (31:57.122) Yeah, exactly. And with your specific breed, mean, that makes perfect sense, Because there is such a huge component. And that's the whole point as well as creating a socialization program that works for you as well, right? So it's going to be very different. And that's what's quite challenging about socialization and things like that is that there's such a wide variety of breeders and things like that. What works for one might not work for the other. And then there's also the individual component. there with the individual dogs as well. And so it can be quite challenging, but you know, and we don't necessarily have the research to say, hey, if you do this, this amount of times you have the perfect puppy, that's not really how behavior works anyways. So it can be, it can be challenging. But again, that's why I like to have that information gathering as well. You know, when you do some of these things with your puppies, you can, you know, see how the litter is turning out, what's working, what's not working. Poodle People (32:39.945) Right, no, unfortunately. Abby Hodder (32:54.55) You know, and every litter would really be kind of like an experiment. And then over time you see what starts to work and what genetics are working well and the parents and whatnot. So there's a lot of components to it. Poodle People (33:09.577) I think that as a population, we are starting to understand a little bit more. Like I see more posts on social media and more conversation about how exposure and socialization are not just taking your dog to as many places, right? You know, it's not just number of times you've gone somewhere. It's more your life. Abby Hodder (33:19.544) Yes. Abby Hodder (33:28.524) Yes. Abby Hodder (33:34.324) Exactly. Yeah, I have seen a lot more of that come up in social media and things like that. And it is really, really great to see that the education is there and people are pushing for that more. think there's, you know, the definition of socialization means different things to different people. And, you know, like anything that can be challenging. So I think it's just, you know, getting the right information out there. you know, it's... Poodle People (33:52.841) Mm-hmm. Abby Hodder (34:03.352) There's a lot. Poodle People (34:04.839) Yeah, there is, you know, and breeders, you know, I have my puppies for 10 weeks. And, you know, to some extent, there's only so much I can do in 10 weeks. You know, I can only try to set them up as best I can. And it is an ongoing process, really, for years, in some cases. Abby Hodder (34:15.221) Absolutely. Abby Hodder (34:19.534) Mm-hmm. Abby Hodder (34:27.446) Yeah, absolutely. you know, breeders do have a great opportunity to kind of set them up, especially during that critical socialization window. And so I think, you know, starting right with the breeder, mean, you know, it's better than not, right? You know, there's always going to be so many factors that go into temperament and things like that. But I mean, the breeder has a huge, huge component. It is a huge, important component of that, for sure. Poodle People (34:35.571) Mm-hmm. Poodle People (34:56.063) Yeah, and you you just have to be realistic. Like, I don't have children, my my, my kids, my talks are not used to small children. And it is challenging to get people to come over and play with your puppies at times. I know it sounds like everyone always promises they're coming over. It doesn't always work as seamlessly because people have their own lives, you know. Abby Hodder (35:13.4) Yes. Abby Hodder (35:19.926) Right, absolutely. And so, you know, it's sometimes about getting creative and doing what you can with what you have, right? you know, letting people, you know, letting puppy parents know, hey, you know, I don't have kids and things like that. But, you know, this might be important to to socialize your puppy with as well when you bring it home. Right. Poodle People (35:25.055) Mm-hmm. Poodle People (35:38.461) Right, exactly. So I know that you have spent this first year gathering information. Do you have an idea of what some of the topics you have planned for your webinars are and what kind of timeline you're looking at? Abby Hodder (35:58.05) Oof, you're asking for the details. Well, so I recently gave a couple talks to some breeders within the community and one was actually on puppy socialization and the other was on breeding dog enrichment. And so that went really well and so I'm hoping to do some webinars for the public and things like that to include. Poodle People (36:00.403) sorry. It can be general, you know, roughly. Abby Hodder (36:25.222) there's just lots. have there's just so much. So I think I'll start with with a workshop in terms of, you know, like actual socialization. The hard part for me is that I for some things I want to do, I need dogs. that the timeline. Yeah. So the timeline for that will vary. But I'm hoping I'll have something put together in the new year. And dog body language is also one that I that I really want to. Poodle People (36:41.019) I just want to ask you that. So. Abby Hodder (36:54.168) to do as well to kind of dive more into that because it's also an important component for our socialization program as well. Poodle People (37:01.577) Yeah, and with your horse experience, probably know a lot about, I think we study horse body language more than we do dog, even though we have more dogs, right? It's very interesting. Abby Hodder (37:10.551) Mm-hmm. Well, it's for sure. And I think it probably has something to do with the thousand, two thousand pound animal that we have to work with. We want to know what they're feeling so that, Poodle People (37:26.589) Yeah, it's really interesting that there's so much research on so many different areas of the horse and we can't find the analogous research in the dog world. Abby Hodder (37:33.558) Rude. Abby Hodder (37:38.422) It is, it can be frustrating sometimes. Before even coming into this position, I knew that the research was lacking in canine, but now where I could actually really use this research to kind of help me along, there's a lot of holes there and there's also a lot of misinformation out there. The dog world is very unique in that way that an animal that lives in the majority of our houses, we actually know the least amount in a lot of ways. Poodle People (37:41.428) Yeah. Poodle People (37:49.992) Mm-hmm. Poodle People (37:56.115) Yes. Abby Hodder (38:08.056) Hopefully that will change though. Things seem to be changing. Poodle People (38:12.071) And you also can just get a dog. Most people who get a horse have to plan a lot more because are you boarding the horse? Is the horse in your own barn? There's a lot more going on. Do you know how to ride? So you typically start learning in 4-H or pony club as a child or as a young adult, you might be taking lessons or as an older adult, you might be taking lessons. Abby Hodder (38:16.076) Mm-hmm. Poodle People (38:40.585) Whereas you can just get a dog and you just need a bowl and a leash and you can call my girl. Abby Hodder (38:43.444) Exactly. that causes... Yeah. Yeah. And that can cause a lot of issues there as well, right? I mean, having a dog is wonderful thing, but there's the flip side of that as well, where even when we look at welfare and things like that with dogs, very... In some ways, it's quite difficult to actually even study because they're in people's homes and things like that. And there's also... It's really also kind of hard to regulate those. Poodle People (38:53.598) Yes. Poodle People (39:02.697) Right. Poodle People (39:12.061) Yeah, absolutely. Abby Hodder (39:12.268) those things. There's always a pro and a con, but I am interested to see how the canine world will shift, especially with more education being available in the next 10 years or so. Poodle People (39:26.685) Yeah, it really feels like things are starting to turn. Like there's momentum growing. I see a lot of, or one thing that I think is going to explode, I feel like socialization has kind of moved into the mainstream. But I think that physical training, like physiotherapy, actually training. Abby Hodder (39:46.478) Hmm. Poodle People (39:54.225) your dog, think that that's something that is going to be on the horizon soon. Abby Hodder (39:59.884) Absolutely, I agree. Poodle People (40:02.579) Are there any other trends that you see? That might be a trick question because I'm not giving you much time to think about it. Abby Hodder (40:08.482) Yeah. Goodness, yeah, I mean there's a lot of, I mean there's also a lot of polarization going on in the dog training world that I see. That's a whole other can of worms that I'm hoping. But things are starting to shift there as well. I mean there's a lot of extreme views in the dog world, right? Because we all have dogs or we've all had dogs. we, know, then of course we must know all the things, dog. But there does need to be. Poodle People (40:24.177) Yeah. Yeah. Poodle People (40:40.135) Right, yes. Abby Hodder (40:43.082) a shift in that regard. I am lately, I enjoy seeing people, you know, more people being real on social media and things that they're struggling with, or, you know, things that they would have done differently, or, you know, all those things. I try and, you know, manipulate my algorithm so that I'm seeing less of the negatives because I'm really, really, I'm sure like with everybody agree, I'm really, really tired of the negatives. Poodle People (41:06.345) Right. Yeah. Yeah. Abby Hodder (41:10.53) though I'm hoping that we can move towards a path where we are just kind to each other and we just learn from each other and help each other if that's what we need instead of shaming and blaming and all of those things. Poodle People (41:24.977) Yeah. And similarly, I sort of think that AKC is recognizing that it is not inclusive enough. You probably are familiar with the AKC FitDog movement or, I don't know, it's a new program or relatively new program. And I think that AKC recognizes that not everyone is going to show or compete. They may not have access to a full-bred dog, they may not be able to travel, they may not want to spend their money that way, but it's a way for them to set goals and just walk with their dog. It's the simplest title that you can get, but it encourages walking, which we know helps both the dog and the human. And I think that that's one of those shifts for AKC that kind of reflects what we were talking about. Abby Hodder (42:26.294) Yeah, and all of those things, I mean, because we do have to shift our thinking in a lot of ways. I mean, there's more than one way to have a dog. There's more than one way to raise a dog. There's, you know, and there's lots of different ways to make dogs happy, right? But we don't necessarily all fit into one bubble. That's just not how that works, right? Or we don't all have the same goal to, you know, show and confirmation or, you know, only do this sport or that sport or anything like that. So It does need to be more inclusive in that regard, but there's, really when you do that and you kind of open that door, there's then at least there's always a place for everybody, right? And then people can find their people and you know, that's the nice thing about those sorts of programs. Poodle People (43:10.259) Yeah. Well, on that happy note, I would like to thank you for your time. I'm really grateful that you were able to talk to me today. Abby Hodder (43:21.353) thank you so much. was a great chat. I appreciate you having me. Poodle People (43:25.531) Excellent. So if listeners have questions, what is your website or what is the best way for them to access more information? Abby Hodder (43:35.8) Yeah, so on the Penn State Extension website, under animals, there is a canine subsection. And so that is where, you know, you can put in your email information and things like that, where you'll get updates on upcoming webinars and things like that, and workshops and whatnot. So that would be the best way and then all of my information is there as well. And you know, anybody can reach out to me at any time also. Poodle People (44:02.231) Well, Abby, thank you so much for joining me today. We were delighted to talk to you. Abby Hodder (44:07.648) Nah, thank you so much. Poodle People (44:09.255) Okay, take care. Abby Hodder (44:11.192) Thanks, bye.