Unlocking Excellence in Dog Grooming and Showmanship with Allison Alexander

Karin (00:00.753) Hi, Allison, it's so nice to have you here. Allison (00:03.864) Hi Karen, I'm very excited to be here, so thanks for having me. Karin (00:07.731) my pleasure. I've been waiting for this for a really long time. So let's get started by you telling us a little bit about your background and your lifelong passion for dogs and all of the different things you've done within the dog industry. Allison (00:25.058) Holy. Okay. So I was really young and my parents wanted to get a guard dog because my dad worked in the prison system and sometimes when people got out of prison, they weren't very happy. So they were going to buy a Doberman. So they accidentally bought an Afghan hound. And I mean, I guess I'm super grateful for that because Karin (00:26.943) You Karin (00:41.831) Okay. Yeah Allison (00:50.632) It was Jim and Doris Deptouch that we bought the Afghan hound from that also bred standard poodles. So they wanted to show the Afghan. We had no idea what that was about. Obviously I was very young. so my mom would bath it and dry it and our whole family would go to the dog show. their daughters, Tempest and Laurel, they were like, you know, 10 years older than me, a little bit older, and they had aged out of junior handling and I became their pet project, right? So they got me into junior handling and like you hear all those stories about, you know, the first time somebody tries something that, you know, they win the gold medal and they're hooked for life. Well, I went fifth out of five my first time in junior handling and I cried and Karin (01:40.178) Ha ha. Aww. Allison (01:44.718) But from there, bigger and better things came along. My parents ended up getting me a miniature poodle because I was too little to show like an Afghan or a standard poodle. And my first poodle, Mikey, I was excused out of a sanction match because he only had one testicle. when people say, you just win a lot or whatever, they might say, It's just like, yeah, but I've been like kind of through it, right? So like I won my first Best in Show in an Afghan, my mom bred when I was 14. I started working for professional handlers, like that I was only allowed to like walk the dogs and clean the crates and things like that. And then I was super lucky to get the opportunity to work for Susan Hillman, who was basically like. Karin (02:15.517) Right. Karin (02:35.728) Mm-hmm. Allison (02:37.248) known as the first lady of dog shows in Canada and, you know, was kind of known all over North America, at least for her skills. And I just like, I learned so much from her. And through her, I met Linda Campbell and I moved to Ontario because Will and I got married, Will Alexander and I got married and just, you know, was super fortunate to show all those Darwin poodles and really work with them. So. You know, now I've won more than 750 best in shows all over the world. And I've been top dog all breeds in Canada with three different dogs, which no other woman has done. I have Leading Edge Dog Show Academy. I'm a future judge. The world of dogs has just done so much for me. And I couldn't be more grateful. Karin (03:36.165) And really, I'm so interested to hear that Afghans were your first one because I've always thought that you had this affection for Afghans, even though I know from your background that poodles are what people think of first. But your love of Afghan hounds really comes through in the webinars. So just a disclosure to our audience, I'm also a Leading Edge dog show, Winner Circle member and have been for a couple of years now. And I absolutely love it. try to attend all of the webinars I possibly can. And in watching your business, I can see things. I know that you like Afghans a lot. And that's really cool to find out that you started with them. Allison (04:22.456) Yeah, it's so like thank you for saying that because Because I do have an affinity for Afghans and then because of that, think sighthounds in general, right? And yeah, it's interesting to see that you can kind of hear that through the crack, I guess. Karin (04:34.333) Mm-hmm. Karin (04:40.189) Totally, like it never occurred to me that, you know, that would have been your background, but I have always noticed that. I guess it would probably be really hard to pick out one achievement, but would it be being, I guess, the most winning woman with dogs? Allison (05:05.006) yeah, I guess I am really proud of that. You know, I'm also, I'm really, I think I'm proud of like, the trajectory of my career. you know, I've been the junior handling representative for the Canadian Kennel Club in two different zones. I really liked it. think teaching the young people that I've taught and seeing so many of them become very well-respected professional handlers in their own right. I mean, think for me, the hard part is that it's not just one thing, right? I'm so proud of like, you're only as good as your last movie. I think in reverse, I'm proud of every single movie I've made, right? I'm proud of every single achievement that I've done and... and just the people that I've met and the people that are still my friends and, you know, it's just all encompassing. you know, Top Dog All Breeds with Stella, she placed, so that was Dawin Stellar performance. She placed in the group every single time she was shown, which I don't know that any other Top Dog has done that. I won the Purina National with the Affenpinser Charlie, which I... Karin (05:59.42) Yeah. Allison (06:28.194) You know, I love that Michael Tipple, his owner was there when that happened. Showing Ricky and winning the variety at PCA, going to the World Show with him in Russia and like winning the breed there. You know, just the achievements with Jack, the Kerry Blue Terrier, bringing people into the sport. Like I can remember talking about sight hounds. can remember the first time Star White brought Karin (06:32.625) Nice. Allison (06:57.166) lucky the Saluki for me to show and I just fell in love because I'd grown up on the west coast of Canada and I'd seen all you know George and Sally Bell and all the Bellsome brand Saluki's that they'd shown and like here was this bitch that to me was just the epitome you know even winning her first best in show I think that was like such a milestone for me as well you know so yeah I have a hard time I won the you know I won the show of shows with Darwin High Falutin. I think that was a huge win. I won the very last show shows there ever was in Canada with the Appempenser. So lots of things. Karin (07:33.925) Many, many things. I love that your career has spanned so many things and that you are willing to share that knowledge. I think that's a really special gift to want to mentor so many people. And because of my participation in Leading Edge Dog Show, I get to see that every two weeks basically. There's a little bit of tough love. You do have high expectations and I love that. You're not expecting, you're expecting people to behave professionally and learn and want to be competitive. And I think that's really inspiring. Allison (08:16.738) Well, I appreciate that. Karin (08:19.283) Absolutely, you know, I'm in a huge fan. I can't pretend that I'm not I feel like I talk about you all the time in every episode There's some reason that I talk about how special the community that you've built is and I know that I only know a tiny bit of it just in listening to what you've said now the show world is so big and What you've accomplished is really incredible Allison (08:49.944) Well, thank you. Karin (08:52.121) What, what dogs, so you've mentioned some of the dogs, Saluki, Affenpinscher, are there any others that you had great success with that we might not associate with you or is there virtually no breed you haven't shown? Allison (09:08.014) Well, I've always said that I wouldn't show German Shepherds. So, and here's my reason. So my reason is, is that I think that there are maybe like, and people will come after me for this, I'm sure, but you know, I think there's like a handful of like iconic dog breeds that you have to show. I think poodles are one, right? Like I think poodles, you know, showing Karin (09:13.297) Allison (09:37.076) a standard poodle in full show coat, a toy poodle, miniature poodle in full show coat, the artistry of like getting that hair to just perform in the ring and look like it's part of the dog. think it's super iconic and I think you have to do it really well. And I think, I think maybe Irish setters, I think Afghan hounds, I think Pekingese are all just these super iconic breeds that you need to show, you need to get an essence out of them. And when you do, everybody sees it. Even if they don't understand what they see, they see it. I think German shepherds are the top, top, top of that list. think showing a German shepherd, you you watch Kent or you watched, you know, Jimmy Moses show a shepherd and like, it's iconic how they do it. And I don't want to do it unless I can... make them look like that. And I just, I didn't have the bandwidth to make poodles and shepherds look like that because I think shepherds are like a whole new school. So yeah, I didn't show shepherds, but you know, I co-owned the all time top winning Shetland sheepdog in Canadian history. I co-owned the all time top winning best in show pug in Canadian history, which probably a lot of people don't know. I love Australian shepherds. Like I love Australian shepherds. I love poodles, obviously, but I love Griffon, Griffons, like Brussels Griffons, wire haired pointing Griffons. I've won many best in shows on those. love that breed. I bred Beagles. bred, Breeder Owner Handled, Beagle to best to breed at Westminster Kennel Club, which probably people didn't know. I love American Cockers and English Cockers. You know, the, the logo for Leading Edge Dog Show Academy is actually my son's English Cocker. And up until he passed away, I've always had an English Cocker in my house. So just like, think I, you know, I, people always say like, do you have a favorite breed? And I guess standard poodles make you look smart, I think. So maybe I like them because they help me out. But you know, it's the individual dogs that I've met, right? Like I've, I've bred champion Salukis. Yeah. Karin (11:28.765) Yeah. Karin (11:46.789) you Karin (11:56.605) When you were young, was there ever a time when you thought about pursuing a different career or did you just stay in dogs? Was that always your career? Allison (12:07.931) I wanted to be a broadcast journalist. Karin (12:11.324) Allison (12:13.26) Yeah, so I wanted to be a broadcast journalist. was the first woman invited to a broadcast journalism course. And it was at a time when they could tell you what you needed to look like and what you needed to do. And I didn't like that. It was very old school. So I stopped doing that and went back to Docs. Karin (12:39.675) Isn't it funny because in a sense now you are using those natural talents that you must have been interested in with your webinars. Allison (12:48.75) Yeah, I thought about it kind of at the beginning. I'm maybe I'll be OK at this, right? Karin (12:54.225) Yeah. Yeah. And it's been interesting to watch because in the beginning, like I can notice you no longer need to ask Katie how to do something. You're just so at home using all of the technology and that's been really sweet to watch. I've enjoyed that. Allison (13:16.312) Thank you. Karin (13:18.131) Are there any trends that you've noticed either, you know, over the years, what kinds of big themes are you seeing in terms of dogs or handlers or the show world? Allison (13:35.278) A few things. I think that we go through peaks and valleys with professional handlers and very, very competitive owner handlers, right? I think maybe in the, probably in the past 10 years, we have more people. many of them young people that are maybe aging out of junior handling that just decide they're going to be a professional handler or, you know, an owner handler that maybe, you know, helped their friend show their dog and, and they're saying that they're not an owner handler yet. They're, you know, taking money for showing people's dogs and like, I'm not criticizing, you know, if you want to do that, if you need to take money from your friends to have your dog shown to split expenses or anything completely on board with that, but I think calling yourself a professional handler when you maybe don't have the wherewithal of animal husbandry, because to me, all the winnings, fantastic, right? But it's how you look after your dogs. There's many people out there in the world that I go to dog shows and I would let them take my dog ringside, but I wouldn't let my dog stay with them overnight because I don't think they have those like husbandry skills, right? So on the professional side, I see that. I see... people, you know, when I started, like I was an apprentice for 10 years, right? And I didn't think that was long enough. And then on the owner handler side, I see peaks and valleys where owner handlers like really believe that they are competitive and can win, which is always my opinion, right? My opinion is, is that an owner handler has one or two dogs to make look beautiful. If you put the work in, you can do it. And I see them really thriving. And then sometimes I see like that downturn where they just don't have the belief that they think maybe dog shows are too political or things get really expensive all of a sudden. So I see kind of those peaks and valleys. I'm worried right now that we might see a little bit of a valley for owner handlers where they're just not really believing that they can win at any level. And I honestly think they can. mean, look at Montgomery County just two weeks ago. Allison (15:56.342) won by a young woman with her very first show dog. you know, it's, to me, I always want to be that cheerleader telling the owner handler, yes, you can do this, but you need to put in the work. It's not just going to be handed to you. Karin (16:12.785) You know, I always appreciate your belief in amateur owner handlers. It is as one. It has been a huge challenge. I come really from the horse world and I thought it would be easier to translate some of my animal husbandry skills, but there are some parallels and some huge differences. Obviously the poodle coat is just a massive thing to get right. And that is a big challenge, but I love that you think amateur and or handlers can win at the top level rather than really just thinking that it's something that professionals would do well. It's hard to get the experience, you know, I, because of where I live, I see Ann Rari the most and I always, I watch her just move so effortlessly and I feel like I am like this giant elephant leading my dog around compared to her. haven't quite gotten that down. So the learning curve is big. Allison (17:26.486) Yeah. And, know, to your point, I think a lot of people coming from the horse world do quite well because they understand structure and confirmation and competition, right? You did jump into the deep end and decide to do it with a poodle, right? So, mean, kudos to you, but still, you know, poodles definitely, know, Poodle University was basically born because so many people want to show poodles and have no idea how to organize the hair, what haircuts or things like that, right? Karin (17:26.835) So. Karin (17:39.527) Yep. Yep. Karin (17:54.106) Right. There are things that I see, like for me to look at the trot and know what the dog is doing is so easy because I've done that basically my whole life. So gates and confirmation and those things are easy. The hair is the challenge. Allison (18:11.084) Right. And, you know, that will be the challenge. You know, I do think one of the things that I would like to incorporate into leading edge, I don't really know how to do it. It would probably start off small, but and maybe you could answer to this, but I have worked with some horse people and they say one of the differences they see is like they would get a lesson, right? You know, like during the week, you might have one or two lessons with your trainer. Karin (18:39.156) huh. Yep. Allison (18:40.024) but then your trainer goes to the horse show with you and kind of like in real time comments on how you did in the competition. Karin (18:51.067) Yes, so. Allison (18:52.192) And so maybe that is something like I, like, I don't know how to do that, but like, I was thinking of like maybe in Orlando, like offering sessions like that to people, but just because I do understand kind of the disconnect between doing it at home in your front lawn, in your training studio or at a handling class, but then needing kind of that real time feedback, like in a competition. And I'm wondering if to really empower owner handlers, if kind of like that's a step or an approach that could maybe help. mean, I don't know, but I kind of think that could be the missing link for some people. Like some people, you know, are killing it. But the other thing I'd like to speak to a little bit about Poodle owner and, know, this is the Poodle People podcast. So I don't have to worry about being too poodly. Karin (19:47.707) Yeah. Nope. Allison (19:51.362) So one thing I would like to speak to is the modern continental or modern trim or historically correct continental, whatever you want to call that, right? So the reason I want to speak to that is I think that owner handlers especially, right? They are taught or talked to by other owner handlers that may be the modern, I'm just going to call it modern, okay? The modern trim is easier, right? So scissor top knot, scissor jacket, you don't have to spray them up, you don't have to grow as much hair, all the things. So I am just going to say on record that I absolutely completely disagree with that because it is hard to make your poodle look the correct shape. Karin (20:33.191) Mm-hmm. Allison (20:48.394) in that trim unless you are like skilled beyond compare, right? Making your poodle look square and not long backed and not short necked or in that trim is really, really difficult. And it requires a lot more scissoring skill. And I just find, I think that that people are told this is easier. Do it like this. And I just think it takes so much more skill to make your poodle look competitive in that trim that I really wish people would kind of, you know, they put their dog in modern trim and then they say, I'm losing because I'm in modern trim or I'm losing because I'm an owner handler. No, you're losing because the judge has 40 seconds to decide how good or bad your dog is. Right. And in 40 seconds, every time they look at yours, yours looks longer back and shorter neck, which is two obvious things that any person can figure out when they're judging dogs, right? And so that sometime is one of the things where I just want to say to people, like, I understand why you're doing it, but please, please, please don't do it. So I said my piece. Karin (22:02.291) I agree with you. One, my line does have a slightly longer back and having a modern trim is definitely not good for them. It's something I struggle with. My young puppy, she's one year old and Jodi took her to PCA for me and I think she showed really well and she will show in a full continental. I will just bypass. the modern, it's not going to do her any benefit. She's such a pretty girl. And my boy Alfred, the first year when he was young, I did show him in a modern. And when I look back at those pictures, I think I didn't do him any justice, even though he did get points, but he did not look his best. So I'm on board with that. The hair is just something you have to get used to. Allison (23:01.164) Yeah, I mean, the hair is a lot of work no matter how you do it, right? You it is what it is. You decided to get a poodle. That's what they look like. They are a ton of work. Some more than others, right? Karin (23:14.963) So one thing I was going to say about the horse world, I ride dressage and in dressage, the judge is actually scoring on a piece of paper and you get that piece of paper at the end of the show. So that is one way that obviously that's not going to be adopted in the dog world. That's just not what we do. piece of paper where it says your trot was an eight or your halt was not square and the judge or the scribe, the judge will tell the scribe what to write down and you will get not square. So you know your horse was, what mistakes your horse made and that to me would be so beneficial. It doesn't exist unfortunately but those kinds of things I think would help the amateur owner handler because the professional is doing it so often that they get to hone those skills and the amateur owner handler is doing it, you know, one weekend a month or whatever their schedule is and they just, they need every tool that they can get. So that's my piece about the horse world. Allison (24:36.652) Yeah, I I like that idea of like maybe developing a score sheet and being able to score people, you know, either live or also if they sent in video. But yeah, I think it was a great idea. Yeah. Karin (24:42.268) Yeah. Karin (24:48.379) Right, because you could write down, know, turn was disorganized or, you know, Allison (24:54.511) You weren't stacked for the first look, you weren't stacked for the last look, you're, know, you're free bait, your dog's sad, or you weren't supporting the dog on the exam. Yeah, I think that could really work. Karin (24:59.109) Yeah. Yeah. Karin (25:04.465) Yeah. So let's get to Leading Edge Dog Show Academy. Did Poodle University come first or not? Or was it always part of Leading Edge? Allison (25:17.166) it was always part of leading edge. So, I lived in Halifax, Canada for a while. And at that point, most of the poodles that I showed came to me from far away, right? Even Peru, but they would come from Europe. They would come from Peru. They would come from all over the U S they would come from other parts of Canada. And no matter how I. Karin (25:26.419) Mm-hmm. Allison (25:43.598) how much hair I told the owners they needed for, you whether they brought me an open bitch for PCA or a puppy just to finish. Many of them arrived with not enough coat. And I would say, you know, then I would have to keep it for three or four months and the owner, you know, would be it's extra expense. Plus I don't really need extra poodles hanging around. So I, my son was a filmmaker. He, you know, he graduated from with a degree in philosophy and history. Then he went back to school and got his film degree. And so I asked him to make me some videos that I was gonna put on YouTube to show people this is how much hair your poodle needs when it gets to me for me to show it, right? And of course he was too busy. So fast forward, there was another woman who had asked me several times to give her like a spray up lesson at dog shows, like how to spray it up. Karin (26:36.221) Mm-hmm. Allison (26:37.634) But we just never connected, right? Like we were either never at the same show together. And so finally one day we connected at a show and I said, yeah. So I, so how I like to give like a live lesson is I teach you like how to, I show you what to do. Then I make you do it and kind of then tell you what you did wrong. So that's what we were doing. Right. So halfway through, she says, well, can I record this on my phone? And I'm like, yeah, sure. And so at the end she said, You know, I paid somebody $250 to give me a spray up lesson at a grooming show. And I learned nothing compared to what I learned from you. You should have an online school. And I'm like, no, I don't want to do that. And she's like, yeah, you should. And I'm like, no, I don't want to do it. And then she showed me somebody's springer spaniel video where they're like in dirty sweatpants and they're Karin (27:20.06) Hmm. You Allison (27:35.448) videoing how to trim the Springer hawk for like seven minutes and you can hear the wind like whistling through their iPhone and at the end of the seven minutes they go oops don't do it that way and I just thought well I can do better than that so meanwhile poodle entries are Dismal at this point. They're terrible everywhere right and I'm and I honestly believe the problem with poodles or the poodle problem is If you buy an Irish setter and you want to show it and you live near your breeder, you can go to your breeder and probably find out how to groom it for the show and how to show and do all those things. And if you don't, maybe there's people around that know how to do it. But poodles are such a handler heavy breed that even if you bought your poodle from a breeder, they probably send them away to a handler to be shown. And Karin (28:33.127) Mm-hmm. Allison (28:34.35) I know poodle people had come up to me at shows and asked me to help them. And typically I would have to say, I can help you, but not till after best in show because I'm showing 15 dogs that day. Right. And so either they can't stay because they have other obligations or they think I'm not serious because I'm just trying to put them off, which I'm not. So all of these things, like this person saying you need an online school, poodle entries are down. I understand people not knowing how to do it. Then. You know, I do have a son who's, so I took a course on how to have an online school and it started with Poodles. I think when we started, released Poodle University and the Ultimate Guide to Handling Your Dog at the same time. And, you know, we thought, you know, five or six people will buy this and that'll be nice. We're helping them learn how to. Karin (29:26.131) Thank Allison (29:29.24) take care of their poodle, right? Like that's good of us. Like yay, we gave back. I really believe in giving back to the community. We gave back to the community and yeah, it just went like wildfire. And like through, then you get questions. well, can you show me how to do this? so more and, you know, more and more videos are made and yeah, it just, it took on a life of its own. Karin (29:51.261) Okay. Yeah. Karin (29:57.203) So I think I've told you this before, but Heather Blakeman helped me when I first started thinking about doing something with my dogs. And Heather introduced me to Jody Garcini. And I have my notes from, I think, maybe 2018 or 2019. I'm not really sure what year, but definitely before COVID. I wrote down Alison Alexander, Poodle University, Jodi recommends. So I have these notes. And then I remember looking at it and thinking, gosh, that's really expensive. I don't think I can do that. And somehow I just put it aside. And now I kind of laugh at myself because I obviously needed it right away. it does... It does show you, I don't remember how I found you when I finally joined again, maybe I guess through Instagram. But you had definitely developed a lot. in that time when I first heard about you from when I actually joined, there was a big, you had a lot of content by that point. Talk a little bit more. Allison (31:17.046) Yeah, Jodie worked for me for a while. don't know if you know that. Yeah, I'm a huge Jodie fan, so glad to see you're in good hands. Karin (31:20.027) I do know that, yes. Yeah. Yeah, so am I. Yeah, she's wonderful. She's actually closer to me than I thought. She's less than two hours away, so that is really wonderful. Yeah. Allison (31:27.95) Yeah, she's great. Allison (31:34.99) Yeah. Karin (31:40.113) So leading edge, how many people are working on it right now? Like, how much is your staff? Allison (31:47.086) we have one, two, like including myself, four full time and three part time people. I know it's crazy. I mean, we have customer service, we have a graphics team. Of course we have Veronica, who's just like amazing at editing and she's the one that's kind of designed our brand booklet and Karin (31:59.953) That is so exciting. Allison (32:15.774) Of course, Katie, who without Katie nothing really happens, Like Katie's the one that makes sure I tell you all the things that I tell you. So, you know, and Katie's been with me since the beginning, right? So super, super exciting for us as well, right? I mean, Karin (32:33.329) And does everyone show dogs? Allison (32:37.582) no, actually. So, I don't know if anybody, so Katie showed dogs obviously worked for me. and then there's my son and his girlfriend is Veronica, who's our graphics person. She never showed dogs, but I think she just, you know, through osmosis, you know, picks up on everything. actually customer service is done by my best friend since high school and Karin (32:57.755) knows a lot. Karin (33:06.195) Bye. Allison (33:06.922) Again, just from notes, she's not a dog person, but from knowing me, she has like more, not, you know, more than the average knowledge of dogs. And she's also very techie, which is basically customer support for leading edge is mostly technical, you know, people. Passwords not working, all those types of things that, know, it's an online prep platform. And then yeah, the other two people are not doggy people, just people. Karin (33:25.139) Right. Yeah. Allison (33:32.728) that we found, either we worked with them on other projects or, yeah, basically we worked with them on other projects and then said, hey, we like working with you. Why don't you come and work for us? Karin (33:42.353) Yeah. Did you see a huge growth during COVID? Allison (33:47.006) I hate to say it, but yes. So one, you know, the dog show industry is very old fashioned, very archaic, not very techie as a rule, right? And so at the point when COVID hit, was still, I had stopped showing dogs. So to pay my bills, you know, I had leading edge, but I share that company with my son and Karin (33:48.977) Yeah. Yeah. Allison (34:14.506) I was doing about 18 live seminars around the world and that's how I paid my bills. And of course, COVID put a stop to that. Two weeks to flatten the curve. So Katie and I decided to have a virtual dog show. And it was just a way to give back to the community, keep the community engaged, right? It was free. We had some awesome prizes. I think we had like $500 worth of Chris Christensen. Karin (34:19.378) Mm-hmm. Karin (34:36.019) Mm-hmm. Allison (34:44.398) and some leading edge stuff. we had a cat entered. Anyway, so we had this virtual dog show. It was great. Then after that, we decided to do a webinar. And it was a free webinar. And we didn't know how to use Zoom. We didn't know how to make a slide deck. didn't, as you know, as you witnessed some of those first ones when I said, Katie, help make this work. so I signed up for the Zoom. That's like 10 people or something, right? Karin (35:03.709) Yeah. Karin (35:12.615) Right? Allison (35:13.324) Well, and then so like we figured we'll get like nine people on our free webinar and it'll be great. And so then Katie and I looked at it and we had 387 people signed up. And that was like, we still had three days to go. Right. And yeah, so we started doing these, we did these free webinars for a while during COVID. And then when it became apparent that it wasn't two weeks to flatten the curve. Karin (35:22.183) Wow. So. Allison (35:41.534) I started getting some companies to sponsor them and bada boom, bada bang, it became a thing. Karin (35:48.403) And how many people now do you have listen to an average webinar? Like last night, how many people were on, do know? Allison (35:55.47) we typically have be depending on the topic between like 50 and 400 people on a, on a webinar. Karin (36:04.349) That's a wide variety. Wow. Allison (36:06.38) Yeah, it's weird. Anytime Katie and I think this is the subject people need, like they absolutely need this, get the worst turnout. Karin (36:12.274) Yeah. Allison (36:17.262) Yeah, so lead a horse to water. Karin (36:20.285) So do most people buy a la carte, you know, like one or two webinars or do they typically subscribe? Allison (36:29.55) The majority of people pick and choose what they want. Obviously, we have more than 200 courses. And as you know, we do two webinars a month. Typically, that's all included in the subscription. So if you're doing two webinars a month, you might as well subscribe, right? Because you basically... Karin (36:33.052) Okay. Karin (36:49.445) find it so bizarre that anyone would bother not subscribing. just you have access to all of the content when you need it. It is such a great resource and you never know when you're going to be working on a spray up and you need the spray up. So everyone can just join. Allison (36:53.548) Yeah, I mean. Allison (37:01.1) Yeah, we're- Allison (37:06.476) Right, yeah. that's why we have the subscription, right? Because we just ended up having so much content. Yeah, so mean, to us, that's also what keeps us going with the webinars as well, is the fact that we want to be always giving our subscribers something new, right? So even if you don't have a poodle, as you probably have seen, we'll do a poodle specific. Karin (37:34.503) Mm-hmm. Allison (37:35.372) webinar and we have all breed people on it all the time. Right. I'm super, super proud of our community. I love the questions. I love interacting with people. I say this every single webinar, but often a question I get asked leads to the next topic. Right. Like you kind of, you know, we've had a lot of questions lately about judges, right. Because I do think that a lot of of people out there are super intimidated by judges. And I think that that's an important hurdle to get over. kind of creating, you know, I am not for politicking with judges. I was actually pretty terrible at it as a handler. Like, you know, I'd be getting my best in show picture taken and the judge would be asking me about the dog's career. And I'd be like, yeah, like we've won a couple of ribbons, right? Like, you know, and other people are going best of opposite sex and like giving the judge the entire dog's pedigree. I was never like that, but Karin (38:08.637) Mm-hmm. Karin (38:27.443) You Allison (38:34.136) But I do think that people need to understand that judges are human beings, right? And that you can interact them in a polite manner that does start to create a relationship with them, even if your relationship is only in the ring getting adjudicated. I think that if you learn these little cues that you can give to a judge and get from a judge, it will make you more comfortable and that will make you a better handler. Karin (38:38.568) Mm-hmm. Allison (39:03.626) and that will make your dog enjoy it more, right? Because you go in the ring and you're nervous because of the judge. So your dog just learns in the ring is a place to be worried about. So I think we've had a lot of questions about that. I need to figure out how to make that in an approachable webinar where people can understand that working, you need to have a working relationship with judges. Karin (39:30.907) So in the horse world, I was assistant show secretary for my friends series here in Lexington, Kentucky. And this was at a very low level, but a long standing show. They've had it for 30 years. So I got to know judges and scribes and all of the people who work behind the scenes. And I think that helps me in the ring. And one little tip that I do is I always ask the judge when they're examining my dog, I say, hello, how are you doing today? Just to see if they will respond. And I keep it quiet. But some of them actually look up at me and appreciate that I've stopped and asked. In this tense moment, I've asked how they're doing and I might comment on their shoes or something. But I try and make a real contact with them. I never talk to them again. I don't have that skill, but I recognize how hard the day is for them. It's a long day. Allison (40:37.952) I completely agree and I also like really agree with, hi, how are you today? How's your day? Right? And as, you know, somebody that's going through the motions to become a judge, and I've also ring stewarded, you know, those days, you're completely right. And I think just even understanding that, that is a huge long day for the judge, right? Like they and never mind that. Karin (40:38.611) you Karin (40:44.263) Yeah. Yep. Allison (41:05.122) They also have a life, right? They might have a mother, daughter, son, husband, wife at home that is sick or not doing well, or they're missing out on a graduation or something because they agreed to this assignment two years ago, or they lost their luggage, somebody put cream in their coffee and they're lactose intolerant. Like, there's a lot going on and yet, you and you have paid for their opinion and you know, it's that. That is all it is. It is their opinion. they are the majority of them are trying to give their their honest best opinion in a very, short amount of time. You and I have a lifetime, days, hours, weeks to decide how good or bad a dog is. Right. We can see it when it's fat. We can see it when it's skinny. We can see it when it's raining. We can see it when it's sunny. We can see it standing on a table on the floor on a carpet. All the things a judge has 40, they have a minute and a half by AKC rules, right? But that includes checking the dog off as it came in the ring, moving the dog as a group, marking your book at the end and handing out the ribbons. So probably they have 40, 45 seconds to decide how good or bad your dog is, right? That's not a lot of time. And half the time it's been galloping around the ring or shaking its head or it won't stand still for exam, right? And the judges have to do this maybe a hundred up to hundred and seventy-five times in a day. Like, that's not easy. Karin (42:42.523) and they're standing on concrete usually, which... Allison (42:44.824) they're standing on concrete or they're standing in the blistering sun or the wind and the rain is whipping them all day long, right? And even as a ring steward, you know, if I have a bathroom emergency, I could say to a club member or another ring steward, hey, can you cover me for five minutes? Right? Judges don't have that option. Right. And, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a long, it's a lot of work. It's a lot. And it's a lot of like, you know, you have Karin (42:48.839) Yes. Karin (43:05.171) Nope. Allison (43:14.286) With that, you have a minute and a half by AKC rules to make a decision on these 30 golden retrievers and which are the four best ones. Right? That's not easy. That's a lot of brain power, right? Karin (43:24.273) No. And it is really easy just to be polite and ask them how they're doing because they will usually pause and actually answer you and that little kindness is just a nice thing to do. Allison (43:30.741) Exactly. Allison (43:39.329) I agree completely. Karin (43:41.619) So let's talk about your partnership with Chris Christiansen. Allison (43:45.698) Okay. Karin (43:47.123) Tell me how that evolved and what it actually looks like and how you launched the grooming side of that. Allison (43:59.329) When, so it started with one of the Chris Christiansen team came up to me and asked if I would do product education for them, right? So they said, we know that you use some of our products. And you know, basically I'm a self-proclaimed product whore, right? Like I've tried everything out there. So they asked me if I would do some product education for them. I asked them what they meant. So because I was video-based at Leading Edge, Karin (44:23.218) Mm-hmm. Allison (44:31.742) I did a lot of their product videos, right? Like, this is a brush, this is how you use it, this is Superhold, that's kind of how it started. And I was just paid for what I did, video-wise. So then they asked me if I would go to some of the bigger shows and do show support. So be in the booth and when people come up and ask questions, answer, this is the product you need to make that hair stand up or that hair lay down or whatever it is. And because of my background, you know, being in Canada and being an all breed professional handler for as long as I had, like I kind of tried everything on every hair type to make it up or down or right or left or black or white or whatever it might be. And so I was like, yeah, okay. Like I can't do it on poodle day. Like, you know, I went to crafts, I think, and Chris Christiansen himself came and watched me. I think I was helping somebody with a Samoyed make it flat hair look poofy. And he was like, I need you, like you need to work for me and like be on the Chris Christiansen team. And I was like, really? And he was like, yeah. And so I started doing that, right. Still just more of the education piece for them. And then when Chris Christiansen was bought by Nexus Pet Brands, I thought, well, that gigs probably over. But the the vice president of Nexus Pet Brands. He saw my videos and he contacted me and he goes, I'd like you to do what you do for Chris Christianson, like even, you know, still as with this new company. And I was like, really? He goes, yeah, like you're an SME, said, which I had no idea what that was. So apparently it's subject matter expert. Yeah. And so, you know, I have super enjoyed my role with Chris Christianson. It's very, very interesting to be able to Karin (46:11.773) Mm-hmm. Allison (46:24.254) influence and give back to the industry from a completely different place. Right? You know, so now I'm helping like, what new things do we need in the market? What things are old and we don't need them? But what things you know, because what things are old and tired, and we don't need them. But what things are tried and true, and we need to keep them in the industry, right? So yeah, super, I'm super blessed to be able to do that as well. Love it. Karin (46:28.637) Mm-hmm. Karin (46:50.331) Yeah, I have to say at first, you know, I sort of missed some of the recommendations that you would give. But I still learned brand names that I didn't know, like plush puppy. So I know those. And I will say I use more Chris Christiansen than I used to use. So it's a partnership that works and the product is great. So it's all good. Wonderful. Allison (47:14.518) Yeah. And you know, I always tell people, you know, if people come to me and they want to upgrade their equipment, I always ask them to either send me a list or take a picture. Take a picture is usually easier than what they have because I know what stuff will be equal or, you know, for the level that you're at, just as good as what I, I don't want you to just throw away everything you have and buy everything new if what you have will work. And I also know sometimes there's a product Karin (47:24.711) Mm-hmm. Karin (47:38.099) Sure. Yep. Allison (47:41.91) out there by other companies that works fantastic and that's what you should use. Karin (47:45.927) Right. So recently you've also started to manufacture your own unique tools and products. Do want to talk a little bit about your Clipper, your stacking box, some other things that I'm probably forgetting? Allison (48:00.854) Yeah, so the Clipper I just helped bring to market for Nexus Pet and Chris Christensen. It wasn't really mine. However, the Stackbox, so there was a person in the States, Sue Catlin, I think, that had Happy Legs. And every time we would do a Happy Legs webinar and include it, because I really love that product, Karin (48:18.109) Mm-hmm. Allison (48:24.78) she would get inundated with orders. And so then she contacted me she goes, what are you doing? Every time you do, I hear that Alison Alexander recommended this and people are crying. And she goes like, my husband and I are old and we don't want to do this anymore. And I'm like, okay, so she sent me all the plans so that we could make them, right? Because I think they're such an amazing and amazing tool. And so, yeah, so we are now manufacturing them ourselves. Karin (48:46.502) Yeah. Allison (48:54.382) We made a prototype and we've upgraded them so they're not just all wooden. The original Happy Lakes, they were fantastic, but times have changed in the last 30 years. Our go-forward for Leading Edge is I don't want to sell the same slicker brush or comb or whatever that you can buy from Chris Christensen or Artero or wherever you want to buy it from. Karin (49:07.217) Yeah, yeah, sure. Allison (49:21.986) But we do want to have unique things that I think make a big difference, right? So we're working with Nadia Bongeli on a stripping stone that she really loves. We have our happy legs coming. So we're going to call it the happy stacker. I'm pretty sure that's what we're going to call it. We are working on a comb that I think is fantastic. I'm working on a deep conditioner that actually strengthens the hair. It's unlike anything I have ever used. But I don't want to do it for leading edge to have it. It needs to be different, right? If I don't want some, it needs to be different or serve a unique purpose that maybe, you like you look at something like the happy stacker. You're not going to be able to. Karin (50:06.259) Mm-hmm. Allison (50:18.552) They're really expensive to make. So we're happy to sell them and just make a little bit of money on them, right? But you're not going to be able to buy them wide and large because people are going to have to charge $600 for them to make the kind of profit that a company needs to make on them. So those are kind of the niche items that we want. We want the items that make a difference, a big difference, but it just would be hard for another company to develop them. And because of my experience with Chris Christensen, I kind of more understand what those products might be. Karin (50:37.821) Thank you. Karin (50:48.61) Okay. So I know you just got back from Grumania. I wanted to ask you a little bit about the Global Poodle Summit, which you held in 2023. Do you want to tell us a little bit about what that experience was like and when you think you will repeat it? Allison (51:08.834) So thank you, thank you, thank you so much for mentioning that. Global Poodle Summit was kind of a lifelong dream for me, right? It was to get some of the best poodle people in the room talking about poodles. So it was myself, Michael Gadsby of Afterglow, Jason Lin of Afterglow, Tom Isherwood of Afterglow, and Maude Nielsen. Karin (51:18.918) Yeah. Allison (51:37.696) of alchemy poodles, all very, very, very good friends of mine. We started the weekend, it was three days. We started by looking at the breed standards and kind of comparing the breed standards around the world because we wanted to have a baseline to talk about, right? Not everybody agrees on what poodles should look like, but we wanted people to know what we thought they should look like. because then you know where we're coming from when we make other recommendations. We then had Michael talk about breeding dogs and whether breeding pedigree to pedigree or dog to dog or whatever made the most sense. Obviously with everybody kind of chipping into the conversation, like kind of round table, Jason and I led the conversation around what we like to call how to raise a dragon. kind of based on the concept of And this happens to, so to me, this is a huge, huge part, right? Where so often people will have... maybe two or three puppies at eight weeks of age that they love. Then at nine weeks of age, they love two. And at 10 weeks of age, they can't decide which one is the better of the two. But they've decided to let the other one go. And they let the other one go based on like right before it's time to bath them. That one looked better. So they they kept one and they let the other one go. And then three months or six months or nine months later, You see the two and the one that the breeder kept is this beautiful show dog in big coat that walks on a lead with all this presence, stacks, does all the right things. And the other one has like no hair and is down in the pasturns and has a runny eye and just doesn't look like a show dog. So this is not because every single time the breeder picks the right one, because that just doesn't happen. Right. It. Allison (53:48.694) It's because the breeder knows how to raise a dragon, right? And I'm sure, especially with a horse background, you understand this, right? You let your poodle play with its litter mates until they're six months old, your poodles are going to have no neck hair compared to mine that I didn't let play with my other poodles, right? You let yours be on concrete all the time. There's a chance it's going to be stained. Karin (53:54.247) Mm-hmm. Allison (54:17.974) and it's hard to get that stained hair the correct color and the correct texture. You didn't treat an ear infection that led to... eye staining or face staining or them scratching their ears. All these things can treat. we, Jason and I think this is super important, right? Like raising, understanding what it takes to raise a show dog, making sure they're in the correct weight, making sure they're wormed regularly, their tone, you know, long toenails are splayed feet and then down in the past runs, right? It just, right? All the things. So we talked about that. we talked about haircuts, obviously. And so then the last day, we did hands-on. So we did two trimming demonstrations in the morning. And then in the afternoon we did hands-on grooming. So those that wanted could bring a poodle and you trimmed it. We watched you and did recommendations and Jason did handling with people, handling troubleshooting. my God, it was the most best thing in the world. I absolutely positively loved every single minute of it. We had, there was a big party with Grumania, they have this big party and dance, which was sometimes that's the best part because people ask even better questions when they've had a couple glasses of wine in them. Because those and so some of those best conversations were at the hotel with an apparel spritz because most of us stayed in the same hotel across the street. Right. Anyway, there are workbooks are legendary. The workbooks from that weekend are amazing. There it was. Karin (55:39.388) Right? Karin (55:49.681) Right, right. Allison (56:00.75) It was a dream come true. It was amazing. We want to have another one. We don't want to have it every year. We'd like to have it every two or three years. You know, we have a couple problems. Like Michael judged the World Dog Show this year. He's judging Poodle Club of America next year. We don't want that to interfere with attendance or people coming. Also, Karin (56:06.408) Good. Allison (56:25.28) We all have lot of commitments. When can we get these five people or at least three of those five people together in the same room again? Right. But we do we want to have another one. It was amazing. Karin (56:39.52) It really seemed amazing and I'm so sorry that I had to miss it. Yeah. Yeah, that's wonderful. I'm so glad that it was so exciting for you. It's wonderful just listening to it. Allison (56:43.266) Yeah, it was, it was crazy. Loved it. Allison (56:54.21) good. And actually, the other thing is we did record it. Karin (57:02.077) Ooh. Allison (57:03.416) So, but as with five speakers, a million people, all the things, the footage is a monster. And we were planning on releasing it in September, like on the anniversary of GPS. So releasing it as like not part of Poodle University, but like kind of we're gonna call it GPS, the live recordings or something. So the new deadline is January. Karin (57:14.333) Mm. Karin (57:19.89) Mm-hmm. Karin (57:26.877) Mm-hmm. Allison (57:31.662) Look out for it in January. We're going to have the live recordings from it as something you can purchase on Leading Introduction Academy. So there you go. Or if you're a Winner Circle subscriber, Karen, there you go. All yours. There you go. Karin (57:33.629) Okay, that's exciting. Karin (57:39.453) That's amazing. Karin (57:43.471) Yes, yeah, I'll be watching. So let's wrap up by talking about the wonderful discount that you are extending to our listeners. Go ahead and tell us what you have offered. Allison (58:04.226) Well, so first of all, Karen, I want to say thank you for having a Poodle People podcast. Thank you for taking the time to do what you do and just get content out there in the world. think anybody that gets content out in the world just deserves that chef kiss. is, I think it's a fantastic thing that you're doing. I'm so happy for you. I'm so happy for Poodle People that have this platform. am Karin (58:12.05) Allison (58:30.926) Very, very grateful that you asked me to be a guest on your podcast. So thank you so much. And to all of Karen's listeners, thank you so much for listening. But Leading Edge Dog Show Academy, you we always want to give back and we want to help our partners. You know, we want to partner with Poodle People podcast and, you know, help promote them and spread the word everywhere. So if you would like, I'm probably going to get the there is going to be a code for you and it's Poodle. POD, P-O-O-D-L-E-P-O-D-4-0. So Poodle Pod 40, all capitals, right? So all capitals, that's important. Unfortunately, our platform is very picky about capitalization. If you go to Leading Edge Dog Show Academy, you can find when you go to a course and you go to check out, there's going to be a little thing that you can click that says apply coupon Poodle Pod 40. going to get you a whopping 40 % off anything and everything that you purchase. And I don't think that expires for a year. So thank you so much for having me and I hope all your poodle peeps enjoy the discount. Karin (59:45.265) you too. I hope that no one has an excuse because this is the best bargain. It is totally worth the money. I have a tight budget and I would never consider giving up my subscription. Never. It's just something that I need to stay on track and feel like I am a professional in the industry even though I'm an amateur owner handler. But you know what I mean. Like I need that. It's essential. Yeah, I would never give it up. Allison (01:00:12.302) So happy to hear it. Karin (01:00:15.731) So I am so thrilled to have had you on the show. It's been a joy. I really have benefited. I think you and Katie have probably sighed over some of my pictures, but have seen the trajectory. I have learned a lot. I still do not trim my dog. I don't have the skill. I will go to Jodi. but I feel like I'm finally getting to a point where I might be able to start using one of my adult dogs to trim and try and make mistakes on and hopefully I will soon have better scissoring skills. overall, I have learned so, so much from you and I feel like I am part of the poodle and show dog industry thanks to Leading Edge Dog Show. Allison (01:01:05.279) That's exactly why we do it. So thank you for saying that. Karin (01:01:08.849) Yeah, it's really successful. I really feel like I'm part of a community and that's really special. Allison (01:01:17.622) Yeah, that's what it's all about. Karin (01:01:19.217) Yeah. So thank you so much for taking some time to talk to me today. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Allison (01:01:25.932) All right, well, thanks for having me, Karen. Thanks, everyone. Have a great day. OK, bye-bye. Karin (01:01:29.308) You too. Bye bye.