Why Insurance is a Smart Investment for Pet Parents

speaker-0 (00:04.194) Hi, I'm Karin. And I'm Elise. Welcome back to Poodle People, where we talk about all things poodles. speaker-0 (00:21.198) Hi everyone, I'm starting the segment with a special announcement about an upcoming event for this fall. Some of you may know that Elise and I started a poodle walk the year before COVID, and the first year the event was scheduled on a day that turned out to have torrential thunderstorms, rain, lightning, and all of that fun stuff. And then COVID hit. So Elise and I walked, but we didn't have any participants. So we gave it a rest for a little bit, and it feels like it's really time to launch a poodle walk. It is somewhat modeled on the huge event in Carmel, California, which is Poodle Day. That, if you're not familiar with it, is really a famous event. With a parade, awards in different categories, opportunities to play on the beach, and it supports a fundraising of organization in Northern California for poodle rescue. I think I'm going to support an organization, hopefully the Poodle Club of America Foundation, to support health research. And all of the other details are still a little bit up in the air, but it looks like it will be in November. So I wanted you to have this announcement and just start thinking about your Saturdays in November. and saving something in the middle for the poodle day. it will be in Lexington, Kentucky at Jacobson Park. And all of the rest of the details are to come, but think about November and bringing your poodle to join the rest of us. Hope to see you soon. speaker-0 (02:29.516) Hi, Travis. How are you? speaker-1 (02:32.342) Hi, can you hear me? I can speaker-0 (02:34.03) So let's get started and I would love to find out a little bit more about you before we start talking about True Panion. I'd love to know your background, your professional background, as well as your dog background. speaker-1 (02:51.796) Yeah, of course. Well, I I I can't thank you enough for for having us again and everything. And yeah, I've been looking forward to this. I think this will be really cool. Well, you know, I yeah, a little bit more about myself. I've been here at Tripanian for a little over five and a half years. I started with Tripanian as a data analyst. I you know, before Tripanian had a background and got a degree in statistics and then I got a master's degree in marketing and Know sort of tried to figure out like, okay, do I want to be more front-end in a sales and marketing function or more back end and in data and analytics? And I think it was a really great way for me to get to know the business and just the pet health industry by working as a data analyst and really diving deep into the data that you know makes makes our veterinary world go round. And then eventually, you know, making this making the turn to get into the sales and marketing where You know, I'm I'm now one of our US general managers. So, you know, my my role realistically is to to drive growth. And the primary channel of growth for us at Tripanian has been through our veterinary channel. It makes up well over half of our business comes from veterinarian veterinarians recommending to clients, hey, you should take a look at pet insurance. you've got a poodle here, you've got a golden retriever here. And you know, they get to be pretty expensive. And Hey, we like we like Tripanian. Take a look at what those guys have to offer. So, that's that's a bit more about you know, my my professional career here. I guess I before before Tripanian, I was I I I guess it's fun to mention too, I was a professional soccer player before I came to Tripanian and played in major league soccer for a few years. So yeah, that was that was a fun bit of of life for me before coming here to Tripanian. But my sort of dog experience and whatnot. I've got two wonderful dogs, two doodles, a go an eight-year-old golden doodle and a two and a half year old Aussie Doodle. And they are just both the joys of our life and everything we do outside of inside and outside of work, you know, really revolves around you know, going out and having fun with them. And you know, we really like to do a speaker-1 (05:14.36) We do a lot of hiking, especially you know, it's I live in Austin, Texas here. So it's very hot right now. So we spend most days at the lake swimming. They're both incredible swimmers and, you know, just water dogs. So we do a lot of that with them. speaker-0 (05:30.124) Love that. So I'm so glad that you mentioned your soccer background. I didn't want to prompt you on that, but I think it's super cool. And I think it helps the audience, you know, see that our careers change, you know, and we move into different phases. And being a professional soccer player is just so cool. I personally am jazzed about soccer right now because a professional women's stadium is going in. Just a few miles from my house. speaker-1 (06:01.26) cool. Yeah. speaker-0 (06:02.952) I'm really looking forward to it. I'm personally I'm hoping that dogs are allowed because I want to get tickets and have someplace to take the dogs regularly. but it's really exciting and kind of a cool thing. I live somewhat rurally in Lexington, Kentucky. So this is kind of the first big development that's coming in, or the big kind, you know, the a a big business that will be really close to me. speaker-1 (06:31.872) Yeah, absolutely. Well I know yeah, I know is is it over there in Louisville that is is bringing in the women's team? that's awesome. speaker-0 (06:39.296) No, it's in Lexington. cool. speaker-1 (06:44.128) Yeah, I mean the the the women's game continues to grow like crazy as well, which is fantastic. you know, I know there's couple you know, a couple a couple of the organizations are, you know, building their own stadiums now and you know, just the the overall viewership, popularity, all of it is just so wonderful to see. So that's great. that's really cool. I didn't know that Weslington was getting a team as well. That's awesome. speaker-0 (07:06.484) It is the Lexington Sporting Club and they announced the new state of the art stadium and the rendering renderings look fabulous. It doesn't look like that right now, I'll be perfectly honest. but you know, it has been coming together and I drive by it every day. It will bring more traffic, which is unfortunate, but I think it's going to be interesting to see that develop. so another thing that I thought when you were talking is that my friend Elise, who typically co-hosts but is taking the season off because of prior commitments she has, she is in Phoenix, also another hot area. And The two of you have lots of heat going on and it really is hard to manage a top heat. speaker-1 (08:03.576) Think about that all the time of like, you know, there really needs to be in these hot places in indoor dog parks. I mean, I know the yeah, the growth of you know, the the doggy daycares and everything like that. Like those are wonderful, but I want to hang out. I don't want to weave my dog for a few hours. Like I wanna hang out and you know, like I mean, I know something that's really cool too, and you know, is the growth of like dog bars and whatnot. So people can have a bite to eat, they can have a drink, but I don't think there's a ton. I mean, definitely not in Austin here. There aren't any dog bars that are, you know, sort of indoor with air conditioning, or at least like, you know, under some shade with some fans and things like that. But I I I love the idea. I mean, I I would be so in if there was if there was stuff like that around here. But yeah, we we make do with you know middle of the day. We we really enjoy going to the lake because our dogs are just a speaker-0 (08:47.606) Mm. speaker-1 (09:02.798) addicted to the wake and to the water. We're we're we're always at the wake in the summer. That's not speaker-0 (09:08.058) Nice. So so this kind of leads really well, unexpectedly into kind of my second question for you, which is to talk about some of the changes that have been going on in pet care or the pet care industry. And so I can tell you, I've had standard poodles for 20 years. And when my vet and I talked about it many, many years ago, it was like You know, he was like, don't bother, you know, it the coverage wasn't really good. It was awkward to use it twenty years ago. And now all of a sudden, you know, things have really picked up. And we are seeing, from my perspective, we're seeing a surge in Health that's very different from what we would typically have seen years ago. And it is starting to look a lot more like the horse industry, where you would typically use very advanced things like acupuncture and theroplate and all of these things that are just kind of typical for veterinary care in my area for horses. Tell me what you are seeing in pet care and if I am on the right track or if it's just kind of localized to my area. speaker-1 (10:33.802) No, you're absolutely on the right track. I mean, I think there's been a lot of interesting developments in, you know, the veterinary industry and just veterinary medicine as a whole. I mean, first of all, and and that's one of the things that I love about Tripany. And you know, just a little bit more about my I always like to say this, and you know, a big reason for my why, you know, why I'm here at Tripany is, you know, I came here because of my love of pets, right? I mean, everybody here at Tripany has a love of pets. You know, we've got a little over 1500 employees now and we're all pet passionate. people. And I don't think any of us feels like we work for an insurance company. We feel like we work for a you know, just a medical company. You know, like we're here to help pets get their best care. But you know, when I first came to Tripanian, I came here because of my love of pets. And I thought I was here to help pets, but I very quickly realized that the real people we were helping here are the people who help pets and veterinary hospitals. Because really I think the big thing that we've seen For a very long time, here is that the veterinary industry has long been very underserved. And it's a very, for lack of better terms, it's an industry that really needs more support. and the biggest way that it needs support is support in client education, for clients to understand that the cost of veterinary care is not cheap. It's it's you know, veterinarians go to school just as long for just as many years as a human doctor does. And but the the salaries are, you know, more often than not, less than half of what a human doctor is. Because unfortunately, the stop treatment threshold for pet care, this is a big stat that we look at all the time, is across the United States, the average stop treatment threshold is only eleven hundred dollars. And we're trying to change that. And you know, when you think of that, that's eleven hundred dollars for vet care. You know, you walk into a human hospital and everything. You have eleven hundred dollars for a bill, nobody's walking out the door and saying, you know what? Yeah, go ahead and you know, I'm put put my grandma, put my grandpa down here. It's no, it's you're gonna do what it takes. And so what we're really on the mission of is helping veterinarians to practice their best medicine and also charge for the the rates that they need to be charging, because an insured pet that's walking through the door isn't concerned about. speaker-1 (13:00.05) you know, a veterinary bill that's gonna cost, you know, if if you tear a CCL in your knee, that's typically gonna be anywhere from five to eight thousand dollars to get that fixed. pet parent isn't thinking, you know, that'll just heal over time, or you know, I'm just gonna let my dog become a couch potato here. No, do do what it takes. We have insurance, we have Tripanion. And so really the landscape over the last you know, 20 years has really changed into. Veterinary practices being able to, you know, have understood that we need to charge an appropriate rate. You know, the the margins on a veterinary hospital for a very long time have been, you know, two to three percent profit margin, which when you think of it from a business perspective, that's not great business. That's not sustainable. And so as time has gone on, as more people have become insured, and this is very much a part of How we work with veterinary hospitals to recommend insurance is the more insured clients you get, the more you're gonna be able to charge a fair rate. And what that's gonna mean for your hospital is that you actually get to practice medicine. When a dog comes in and needs an MRI, people aren't gonna be thinking, I can't afford that MRI. Just, you know, give us some pain medication so they're not crying and they're not hurt. No, you can actually get that MRI. You can actually get that surgery and do what you were supposed to do. Nobody went to vet school to be a financial advisor to people. They went to vet school to practice medicine. And that's really the biggest thing that's changed is because people are looking at their pets as, you know, kids, if you will. You know, like I even we at Tripanian and myself especially, we don't think of, you know, we don't say. Pet owners, we say pet parents, you know, because you are a guardian, you are a parent to this, you know, to this this dog or cat that, you know, is entrusting you to take care of this pet and to look after its needs. speaker-0 (15:03.254) I I love your passion and I I can say that I certainly have paid bills that are much bigger than eleven hundred dollars. I will admit I'm a little bit late to the insurance bandwagon and I wish that I had paid attention to the changes that were going on much sooner. I have been offering the go home trupanion offer with my litters. And I hope that my pet parents are, you know, taking advantage of that now that I have had this huge reversal. And, you know, also as as I've moved into a different role where I am breeding animals, I have more, I have more responsibility. And I I agree with you. These are my children, these are my pets, they are part of my family, and I am going to spend a significant amount of money to make sure that they're comfortable. And I love that insurance can help with that. I also I I mean, I so much agree with what you said about how veterinarians now get to practice surgery because I am sure there are many times when the vet is thinking, we could so easily, you know, with yeah it must be such it must be very difficult when the vet can see that. this would be a relatively simple procedure. And if the person just can't afford it, that is a a a difficult thing. speaker-1 (16:38.442) Yeah, it it really is. And you know, what's interesting about here at Tripany is you know, of course, naturally being in the veterinary industry, we have a very large portion of our employees and everything come from a background in veterinary medicine. And, you know, one of the things that, you know, we've really done and, you know, we really work for too is again to really help reshape and support the veterinary industry because one of the one of those, you know, just sort of shrouds that I don't think most pet Parents understand is that again, when veterinarians can't practice medicine, that compassion fatigue is very draining and it's very heavy on them. And you know, a stat that I think is really important is, you know, in the veterinary industry, veterinarians are three and a half times more likely to commit suicide than any other industry. And it's it's a horrifying stat that we're really trying to change by helping helping pet parents understand and budget. We the the terminology we really use is. We're here to help you budget for the lifetime care of your pet because the average dog in a lifetime is going to cost between nineteen and twenty-six thousand dollars in veterinary care alone. And I don't think the vast majority of people understand that when they're adopting their dog is, my goodness, I need to budget out over the next 15 years, hopefully. you know, f over the next 15 years, I need to make sure that I'm budgeting out. well over $19,000 for veterinary care. And again, that's that's just the average. I mean, I keep using the the story recently. My my brother, you know, is a very happy true panion member at this point where he hasn't had to use his coverage at all in the five years he's had coverage. He, you know, as a supportive brother, love him to death. He got coverage shortly after I started with the company. And you know, he just had a sixteen thousand dollar single claim. A few weeks ago. And all that was wrong with his dog was a herniated disc in her back. But you know, they had to hospitalize her, they had to test, they had to figure it out. Then they did the surgery. And, you know, a sixteen thousand dollar bill turned into him only paying fifteen hundred out of pocket. And that's what we're here to do. So veterinarians can, again, practice their best medicine and ultimately, again, everybody's gonna win in the situation because speaker-1 (18:59.362) His dog is happy and healthy and able to walk and run within without any issue any longer. And the hospital didn't have to spend time trying to convince him to right, you know, accept the treatment plan. But then also, most you know, very importantly as well, is he didn't have to go into debt to be able to do that. You know, when it's a when it's a monthly payment that you expect every single month, that's a budgetable expense at this point, not something that. you have to go out and get a credit card for and things like that, which speaker-0 (19:29.282) You're not in the emergency room applying for that credit card that's on every counter, you know. I mean, I'm glad that they're there in an emergency, but you really can plan and make sure that your dog has better care. speaker-1 (19:41.95) Exactly. That's exactly it. speaker-0 (19:45.89) are you seeing, you know, are you seeing the same kind of uptake rates across the US or is it in areas where you have greater penetration? Is the whole country changing or is it still spotty in areas? speaker-1 (20:02.882) That's a great question. You know, our growth has been very, I would say dispersed and diverse in our growth. you know, I think traditionally, you know, we started as a business in Canada. And I think I think it's been very interesting to see the nuances, especially if you just compare certain areas where we've had coverage for longer. so a little bit more history on us, because I think it's a fascinating sort of study is So we we started in Canada in 1999 over in the Vancouver area of British Columbia. And then we operated in Canada until or we still operate in Canada, sorry, but we moved our our headquarters from Vancouver to Seattle in 2008. So realistically, we opened up business in the United States in 2008, you know, about eight years after we started in Canada. And what's really interesting is the penetration of Pet insurance in Canada is much deeper than what it is in the United States. You know, Canada is getting very close to 10% of pet parents have insurance now, versus the United States is still about 3%. And so I think a big yeah, it's it's really interesting. And you know, the way from a data perspective, I think there's a lot that goes into that. you know, I think there's a couple of fun, interesting nuances to it. I think a big part of it has been. where we have had field coverage, aka, you know, we have, you know, the the single I always like to say the single most important role at Troopanion is our territory partner, which our territory partners are essentially, you know, they're there are field reps, but what's unique about our model is it's it's pretty similar in the to the people insurance side where they are business owners, they are not employees of Troopanion. And why I think that's important is, you know, as a business owner, You get a call at 10 o'clock from a hospital, you're taking that call. You're never going to turn it down. You're never going to turn away. You own that business. You live, sleep, breathe, getting more enrolled pets in your territory and making sure that they're having an excellent experience at the hospitals that they go to. Versus, and that's no disrespect, of course, to a you know, an employee model that I know other companies have, but and and a business owner is gonna is. speaker-1 (22:21.164) gonna be committed and is gonna be here for the long haul. And so I think why Canada is more penetrated than the United States, a few reasons is one of them is they've had field coverage since 1999 versus in the US, we started adding our territory partners in 2008. So that's you know nearly 10 more years worth of building relationships with hospitals, gaining that trust that we're gonna do a good job, we're gonna do what we say. And Just like any company or any business, when we make mistakes, we're gonna open own up to it. We're gonna be open and transparent and we're gonna try and make things right. So we've had 10 more years to be able to do that in Canada. I think that time aspect is a really important one from the pet parent perspective as well. Where, you know, you you mentioned, you know, that you you know, 20 years ago you were having the conversation about insuring your your poodles, and the veterinarian said, you know, there's some companies with spotty coverage and you know, it it may not be worth it today. And 20 years ago, you know, as much as I'd love to argue that, you know, perhaps your veterinarian certainly had a point. because there were only a few companies out there, and there's certainly ones that did weave a pretty bad taste in the mouth. But I think what we've worked really hard to do at Trupanion is to make sure to again be very open, be very transparent, and try and give our pet parents, our members, the ultimate transparency of. what's going to be covered, what's not going to be covered. And at the end of the day as well, I mean, I our greatest mission is, you know, of course, to insure more pets, but I think the way we go about it is really what separates us from the rest of the insurance industry. Because at the end of the day, we are the only company that can pet insurance company that can pay your veterinarian directly. So you're not having to come out of pocket. And That is ultimately the problem with for for pet parents is can I afford this bill today? You know, every other pet insurance company, you're gonna have to wait to get reimbursed sometimes, even if it's a day or two days, you know, that's pretty fast. That's you know, I think most people would be happy about that. But again, I I use the example of my brother, he had a sixteen thousand dollar bill. Who has sixteen thousand dollars in their pocket to speaker-1 (24:42.05) Then wait for their pet insurance to give them $14,000 back. You know, research within the United States would have you show that, you know, the average American only has about $600 in savings, not 16,000. So we are trying to solve that problem of can pet parents afford that care today? And the growth has really come with time of understanding that. Hey, there are companies out there that do this the right way. They cover, you know, the most, you know, hereditary conditions, congenital conditions. And, you know, they're going to give me a medical record summary so I know what's considered pre-existing versus what's not. And again, I think at the end of the day, our biggest challenge or maybe supporter is just time. You know, people, a lot of pet owners, we like to think of it very generationally. You know, the first Pet you own, most people don't get pet insurance. Again, today it's still only 3% of Americans have pet insurance. But when you own your first pet, unfortunately, every every human being, whether it's you know quick and painless or you know, it's a big medical expense, everybody is going to go through an unfortunate loss of their first pet. And just like humans, most times it's, hey, you develop cancer, you develop. you know, a a a certain disease that for the most part they are treatable, but pet parents don't have that understanding of what is the cost of this going to be over time. So people just don't understand that, hey, it's probably a smart idea to get insurance. And so a lot of times what we see is pet parents are adopt are are adopting insurance on their second or third pet once they've ex unfortunately, you know, experienced that heartbreak of. Gosh, I loved my first poodle. They were the best. And you know, I I just I can't stand this, this, this hole in my heart. I want to go get another poodle. I'm gonna make sure to get pet insurance this time because last time, you know, it was a sixteen thousand dollar charge that had I had insurance, I could have extended her life by a few more years. speaker-0 (26:50.274) Right. And maybe you give me an idea of your market share compared to other companies. And you know, you don't have to mention any of them, just kind of speak generally. And I think that would be really helpful. speaker-1 (27:12.054) Yeah, of course, of course. So you know, I mentioned a little bit about it, but you know, so Trupanion, we are the largest in pet insurance provider in North America. So between the US and Canada, we do have the most insured pets. And I think there's a couple key things that we do that really set us apart. when it comes to our enrollment surveys, when people sign up for Troupanian, the number one answer when asked why did you sign up for Troupanian was our ability to pay the hospital directly. You know, so as we were mentioning, we're the only pet insurance provider that can pay the veterinarian directly at the time of service. So that way you don't have to come out of pocket. It's the number one reason why people sign up for us. Because again, if you've you get those big charges, you're not having to come out of pocket. But also it's the convenience of you don't have to, you know, submit paperwork to your pet insurance company and wait for a few days. Instead, you know, we've partnered with over 10,000 hospitals across North America now that have our, you know, our patented, we have a free patented vet portal that we give to hospitals again for free. So that way they can submit your invoice directly at the time of service to Trupanion. And we can read and pay that claim with about 90% of claims are paid in less than five minutes. So ideally before you even walk out of the hospital. Or before they even give you your final total, they've already submitted that claim to us. So they say they can turn to you and say, Hey, thanks for coming in today, Karen. your total bill today was fifteen hundred dollars, but submitted your claims through Trepanion's portal. And it looks like they paid eight hundred and fifty dollars of that. So you you have that left over to pay and everything. And so yeah, that's that is the biggest differentiator that sets us apart. Yeah, absolutely. It's it's again, it's we were on that mission of solving the re you know, our mission is to get rid of the reimbursement model over time. You know, it's our goal to have, you know, ninety percent plus of claims paid through our vet portal for direct pay. So people aren't having to pay out of pocket. But I think a couple other features that I always love to share as well beyond the direct pay is we are the only provider that's open 247-365. speaker-1 (29:33.57) you know, and I always like to share the fun fact that over the last 12 months we've had almost 4,000 calls be between 2 a.m. and 4 a.m. And you know, of course, those calls between 2 and 4 a.m., I don't think there's too many people staying up late thinking, huh, I wonder what my pet insurance company is up to. So let me give them a call real quick. you know, unfortunately it's usually because something's going on. You know, you're sitting there in the emergency room and you need a quick answer on. Hey, am I going to be covered for this or am I going to be covered for that? Or hey, can you pay this claim for me really quick? Because it's two in the morning and I need to get this paid. So my dog can or my dog or my cat can get the care that they need. So we're open 247-365. We have direct pay and the list truly goes on and on and on of what we do. And again, I think what's most important to me as well is that we do provide a above all else, we do. provide a medical record summary to every new pet parent. So when you sign up for us, we're going to reach out to the veterinarians and to the hospitals that your pet has been seen at. So we can get a good understanding for what's going to be pre-existing or not. And if you decide, man, there's just so many pre-existing conditions and I really wanted coverage for this individual thing, but you're telling me it's not going be covered, that's okay. you know, we we we hope that we can get to you before You have any pre existing conditions? That's why we always work so hard with veterinarians and you know, breeders like yourself love to hear you're using the go home day off or to send that out to pet parents as young as possible so they have the best experience possible with little to no preexisting conditions. That's that's really our goal. speaker-0 (31:17.774) Yep. It really is nice. I've really enjoyed working with my rep on that. It's been great and, you know, very responsive, sends me tons of information. and I've really enjoyed that. speaker-1 (31:32.514) Good. I'm happy to hear that. speaker-0 (31:34.53) Yeah, and it makes me feel, you know, now I now that I've had this U-turn in my approach toward insurance, it's really nice to give them to to feel more confident. And I've actually incorporated a question about insurance into my pre-screening because I want people to understand the commitment that I expect them to have. so my questionnaire, before they even talk to me or really get into it is just basically, are you committed to paying for insurance for the rest of your dog's life? Because that is an expectation just like I expect many other things. I expect you to groom a poodle regularly. All of those that are so essential. speaker-1 (32:18.912) Yeah, I I I love that. And you know, that's that's the exact sort of normalization that you know we work with, you know, breeders, shelters, vet hospitals to normalize that question of who you know, the biggest thing we ask hospitals that or you know, when we coach and consult veterinary hospitals to put on their intake form is to ask the question of who's your pet's medical insurance provider? So that way people start to understand that idea of like, Shoot, I probably should get pet insurance. That's that's a good idea. I always like to tell the story that, you know, I I had one dog and one cat before coming to Troupanion, but not only had I never heard of Troupanion before seeing the a job posting on LinkedIn and whatnot, but I didn't even know that pet insurance existed. But I mean, my my dog was, you know, she was there with me when I proposed to my wife, when we got married. I mean. We would do anything for our dog. And so the idea that we didn't even know pet insurance existed is, you know, a a bit crazy. But, you know, as time has gone on, I mean, that was twenty fifteen when we first adopted her. So as time has gone on, or sorry, twenty sixteen, gotta get my years straight. But you know, we're we're continuing to normalize that conversation with breeders like yourself and of course the other breeders and veterinarians and shelters that we work with across North America here. speaker-0 (33:43.414) It really is a great story. i and it's such an essential part of the care. And as costs rise, you know, w you know, everyone is talking about inflation and how expensive things have gotten and no one wants to be paying high vet bills. none of us do. do you have any idea what it's like in Europe? Because speaker-1 (34:03.073) Of course. speaker-0 (34:08.525) You know, I'm just wondering since they have socialized medicine, do they also accept the idea of kind of socialized insurance for their pets? speaker-1 (34:17.24) That's a really great question. And it's certainly a barometer that we like to use for ourselves too, is looking at what's happened in Europe. And, you know, so a couple of things. I mean, several of the, you know, several countries in Western Europe. I mean, take for example, I mean, a couple of the the countries we really like to compare ourselves to are you look at the United Kingdom, they've got a close to 50% penetration rate of pet insurance. So it's, you know, one out of every two dogs is gonna be covered. a country like Sweden, this is a fun one, in Sweden, ninety percent of dogs are insured. 90%. And so I think there certainly is. I mean, even even if you look at, you know, we we talked a little bit about the difference in geography of, you know, the US and Canada. And I mean, even with Canada, I think you could make the argument of, you know, perhaps, you know, from a political landscape standpoint, insurance that you know, there is universal health care in Canada. And you know, perhaps. Insurance is a little bit more of a right than a privilege. you know, and obviously the United States has continued to make strides forward and on the people side of things and what have you. But I think in in Europe, I think it's certainly a bit of that mentality as well. But again, going back to the other example, it's it really is time. I mean, pet insurance in the United Kingdom has been around since the 60s and 70s for dogs and cats. In Sweden, it's been around for just as long as well. So There's been more time in the industry, or the the industry has been there for longer. Whereas in the United States, the the first pet insurance provider didn't open their doors until you know the very late 80s, early 90s. And again, there was only, you know, one, two, maybe three options in those days versus now, as much as you know, we might be the largest holder of market share in the in the in North America, but there are about 30. plus different providers in North America to go choose from and everything. Right. speaker-0 (36:13.47) Right. it really is it's gotta be exciting within your office or you know, within your network because the upside is huge. Right. I mean, are y you have a lot of job security because with only three percent you you know, you obviously want to get to ninety-eight or even fifty. So probably a lot of growth in the coming decades. speaker-1 (36:24.652) Absolutely. speaker-1 (36:38.922) Absolutely. I mean it's it's you know from a I I I came to True Panion again because of my love of pets and you know we're a very mission-driven company and I truly can't think of working anywhere that I'm not passionate about the mission and the mission of helping pets and helping the people that help pets is really exciting and something that gets my gears going. of course naturally from a you know just from a pure sort of business sense, I was of course attracted to the idea that. my goodness, this business, this industry of pet insurance has been growing by about, you know, 20% plus for the last 20 years. And only 2% of Americans still have pet insurance. So there is nothing but upside. And you know, again, that was that was about five years ago. And even just, you know, looking around Tripanian alone, you know, I I when I started with Tripanian about five and a half years ago, I was employee number 500 or so. Now we have over fifteen hundred. We were only in the US and Canada. Now we're in Australia and Germany and Poland and some other, you know, we're opening up more and more in Europe. And so the the expansion and the growth has just continued to grow like crazy. And again, it's time in the industry and people having that better understanding of this is what I, you know, I I need to make sure I can budget for my pet's best care. speaker-0 (38:02.03) I love that. I love hearing that you're expanding abroad too. So if I had if I moved to France or Germany or a country that you have coverage in, would my US coverage translate or would it not quite work that way? speaker-1 (38:18.618) it absolutely would. well, so that's a very interesting question. so any veterinarian that you go see, we are going to be able to pay claims for. Now, w how we're currently set up today, it's gonna be different from the future. I mean, our European expansion is very, very new still. but it's technically a different policy in those different European countries. But any veterinarian that you would go see, so long as you have a trepanine policy, we're of course going to be paying that claim anywhere in the world. speaker-0 (38:53.56) That is just fantastic. And I love hearing those plans. I mean, it's really nice that, you know, you're envisioning a future that is really bright for pet parents and making sure they have the services that they're going to need. speaker-1 (39:10.456) Absolutely. That is that is what we're here for. Twenty four seven, three sixty five, anything big or small. speaker-0 (39:16.814) Well, Travis, it has really been exciting. we're kind of pushing the limits of time, but I just couldn't stop answering or asking questions. And I totally went off script. I I think I had warned you that I would probably be coming up with new things. And I knew that our conversation would take tangents, which it did. thank you for being so patient and adept at answering the questions that that popped into my brain. I appreciate that. speaker-1 (39:46.186) No, likewise. Thanks for having me on. And yeah, also giving me a platform to be able to have the conversation. I can I can go on all day long, all night long. So this was this was a pleasure for me as well. speaker-0 (39:58.254) Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining. I really appreciate it. And I loved talking to you and hearing more about True Panion. speaker-1 (40:05.12) Likewise. Well thank you so much, Karen. And thanks for putting this together. I had a chance to take a listen to some of the other podcasts and love the mission that you're on here. However, we could continue to support, please let me know. speaker-0 (40:15.426) Thank you so much. You have a great day. You too. Bye bye. speaker-1 (40:17.75) You too, Karen. Take care. Bye. speaker-0 (40:31.736) Thanks for listening and remember a poodle will change your life. As this episode comes to a close, I'd like to remind you that you can get in touch with me on Instagram, at Strong Contestant No O, you can email us at Poodle People Podcast at gmail.com, or you can visit my website at Scotch Corner Standardpoodles.com. I am also taking reservations for my next litter with Emma. So if you are interested in a poodle puppy, please get in touch. Please remember to like us on your favorite platform or even better, leave a review. We really appreciate it and it helps us get new listeners. And if you have any questions you want me or Elise to answer, send us an email at poodlepeoplepodcast at gmail.com. speaker-0 (41:32.322) Thanks for listening to this episode of Poodle People. See ya next week.